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Thread: Engine Hot - Starting Issue

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    AJ3XX's Avatar
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    Default Engine Hot - Starting Issue

    Before someone screams ďnot again, do a bleeding searchĒ, I have !

    My 348 has always struggled a little bit to start when hot. Itís never been anything major and would always start second time so wasnít too concerned. However, over the past months that has got quite a bit worse and it sounds like a bag of spanners whilst itís trying now.

    So, I done a search on here and as always, CS turns up with large amount of related threads and answers. It certainly appears the most likely issue is grease in the fly wheel, or lack of it. So if I take it thatís my problem, I have a few questions:

    1) Iím not mechanically skilled and although SteveW has a fantastic Ďhow-toí thread on CS, I wouldnít be able to re-grease this myself. If I live with it until my next service (November) and have it done then, would I risk causing any damage to the car ? Itís annoying but Iíve also read starting with the clutch down and in 3rd gear helps, so hoping I can get away with it for 6 months. I expect Iíll do at least another 2000 miles before November.

    2) I had an engine our service last November. Could this have had any effect on my flywheel grease ? Iím not entirely sure whatís involved with the engine out belt change, with exception to the obvious Öengine out Ö belts changed, but it does seemed to have become a much worse problem since then.

    Thanks for any advice
    Ferrari 348 - "still stands out from a crowd but yet still fits inĒ - Randy Stetson

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    Mad dog have done a video on YouTube - why not take a look (or send it too them for them to do).

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    AJ, having seen my engine out (twice) I can't particularly see that causing the problem to get noticeably worse. I think I'm right in saying that if you've diagnosed it correctly and the flywheel needs redoing, the "sounding like a bag of spanners while trying" bit is partly because the flywheel is slightly out of ballance. This may not break your engine but is not altogether good either.

    Personally, I'd bring the service forward and get it sorted out now. It probably won't trash your engine....... but is 'probably' good enough?

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    Sounds familiar. Mine does the same occasionally when hot but without the bag of spanners. Excuse my ignorance but what bearing does grease/ no grease in the flywheel have on hot starting? Ive read the fuel pressure regulators could be the culprit here. Ive always put it down to fuel evaporation which I've had on other cars and feels the same. It can get very hot in the engine bay as we know. Mine always starts after the second crank though. May splutter slightly but clears immediately and drives perfectly. More this time of year as its hotter I guess.

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    AJ3XX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangea View Post
    Sounds familiar. Mine does the same occasionally when hot but without the bag of spanners. Excuse my ignorance but what bearing does grease/ no grease in the flywheel have on hot starting? Ive read the fuel pressure regulators could be the culprit here. Ive always put it down to fuel evaporation which I've had on other cars and feels the same. It can get very hot in the engine bay as we know. Mine always starts after the second crank though. May splutter slightly but clears immediately and drives perfectly. More this time of year as its hotter I guess.
    Can't say I know the answer to this but if you do a general search with the topic '348 won't start hot' there are loads of threads here that all confirm its the flywheel needing new grease. This includes posts from SteveW and others that are considered 348 experts.
    Ferrari 348 - "still stands out from a crowd but yet still fits inĒ - Randy Stetson

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    Here you go found the video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSUy7BPzdWc

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    Mine had the hot start problem as well. All OK since I got Mad Dog to sort the flywheel.

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    My understanding is seriously 'noddy' but my understanding was that as the flywheel looses grease (why the hell is it packed with grease anyway?!?!?) the grease that's left can move about. When the engine is hot the grease is softer and so collects in the bottom of the flywheel leaving it off balance. When you then try to crank it the sensors that tell the injection system how much fuel to put in is 'confused' as the engine speed is variable and so the engine won't fire. After you've spun it round a few times though the grease is 'spread out' and so the variable speed is not so great and the sensors are 'happier' allowing the injection system to have a good stab at how much fuel to put in and the girl fires. When running at speed the imbalance in the flywheel is not so important as it's going round so quickly and I guess the grease spreads out.

    Kind of how it was described to me but I've probably got utterly the wrong end of the stick.

    Either way, I'd still get it repacked as soon as possible AJ

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    Ok. I get the noise issue now and its relation to the starting fault. Not something I've come across associated with flywheel/clutch noise before. Electrical noise affecting sensors yes, but not this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangea View Post
    Ok. I get the noise issue now and its relation to the starting fault. Not something I've come across associated with flywheel/clutch noise before. Electrical noise affecting sensors yes, but not this.
    Sorry for not answering, didn't see the question. It's because the ignition system uses info for the crank sensor (think that's the right one ) for the fuel timing. Imagine it gets a signal saying to inject fuel, there's obviously a slight delay to the fuel actually getting to where it needs to be and when it does the engine has gone at a different speed and so the phase of the engine is slightly out of sync to the injection of fuel. We're not talking the 'slow' increase you get when you rev her which is predictable and the timing can be altered to account for it, we're talking fast-slow-fast-slow-fast... etc all in the space of a cycle. In effect you flood the engine as the timing is off.

    Anyway, that's why you get the sound and why it effects starting especially when hot.

    I'd still stand by what I said, AJ. Worth getting it done sooner rather than later as an out of balance engine, even a very slight one, is not a good thing although I doubt it'd actually damage anything. If you get it done by Mad Dog would be interested in the price. Mine hasn't been done for quite some time (no record of it being done) so eventually I'll need it to be.

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