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Thread: 488 options, is there such thing as a bog base car???

  1. #51
    Siy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petrolhead88 View Post
    If I was told my new Ferrari order with 22k of extras was disappointing, I would tell them where to go.
    This!
    Love the Cailfornia...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssdu01 View Post
    I think the benefits of a carbon chassis on a road car are overrated. As an example look at the Alfa 4c and the Elise - similar design concept - but the lotus aluminium chassis weighs 1 KG more than the carbon 4C chassis. If you compare the chassis side by side they are a similar shape and form, however the lotus chassis is a bit longer as it incorporates the front suspension mounts where as the Alfa has a sub frame bolted to the front. If you add the Alfa front sub frame (to make a similar "like for like" comparison), I bet the aluminium lotus chassis is actually lighter.

    Alfa chassis takes 90 manhours and it would be very difficult to use machines to lay up the pre peg carbon. I cant imagine it takes 90 hours to bash out an Elise chassis. I know they use a robot to apply the Elise chassis glue as us mere humans couldnt put down a standard line of glue in a straight line and the man made chassis had glue pushed out of the joints and looked a mess. This isnt good on a lotus as you have no trim or carpets you just see the chassis you are sat in, and you dont want to random see blobs of glue everywhere !!
    Agree with you on these elements of the design. In my old aerospace design days it was always been difficult to argue with both riveted and extruded aluminuim. In the old days when carbon manufacture was in its infancy (remember aluminuim production and what's possible had about a century head start) some of the calls where marginal. Having said that the Elise although it looks similar is no where near a like for like car. They are separated by over a generation and although neither are produced in enough volume for NCAAP testing its safety both in F1 and in road cars that is bringing carbon to the fore now.
    I know which one I would rather be in or hit by.
    The Elise would be impossible to design as is today as many regulations would put paid to it and it's cousin the Vauxhall vx220.
    Also the whole thing about supercars is they are supposed to represent the pinnacle of design and materials. I don't think Ferrari will get away with mere carbon dressing for much longer before people are wanting a carbon tub car.

    I cannot think why they are not at lease doing carbon body panels by now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssdu01 View Post
    On the premise that some idiot would buy a Ferrari branded turd ........ they will get away with it for the foreseeable future. I cant think of any other brand that is so aspirational and has such a loyal following
    Me too but such brands start dying silently much much longer before their actual death. As Ferrari themselves say a Ferrari should always represent the very pinnacle of performance, emotions and technology.

    It will take a few years of them not being so before the rot sets in.

  4. #54
    sssdu01 is offline Only 37 known common faults - The Ferrari 355 Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    . Having said that the Elise although it looks similar is no where near a like for like car. They are separated by over a generation and although neither are produced in enough volume for NCAAP testing its safety both in F1 and in road cars that is bringing carbon to the fore now.
    I know which one I would rather be in or hit by.

    I cannot think why they are not at lease doing carbon body panels by now.
    Mos when I said they were very similar I was referring to the basic layout/design infrastructure. Take away the non structural body panels and the are very very similar - driver sat in a wide shallow two seater bath tub - wishbone suspension hung off the 4 corners, transverse mid engine in a subframe. This makes a basic layout/chassis weight comparison very valid.

    If Carbon body panels were integrated into the chassis design ie become structural members, then carbon could give a worthwhile weight reduction but would cost a lot more to make, and crash repairs would cost so much that even a minor bump could write off the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 430SH View Post
    I have just ordered a 488 spider to replace my 458 spider, gone with blu corsa which I love but hope it doesn't mean am stuck with it for ever!
    I have added 22k worth options, then to be called by the dealer to say ferrari are disappointed in my lower spec model and that they insist on at least 50k! of spec on a spider! madness, I have chosen what I like apart from the carbon wheel, which I have on my 458, if am honest I am only doing that as I have been told it has to have it for resale, carbon really doesnt interest me and I know when to pull a paddle without the help of an LED!!
    so my question is!
    are there 458s/488s out there that have sold at the list price with no factory options at all?? anyone seen one? would it affect used value massively and then be impossible to move?
    There are loads of cars with hardly any options. The italians especially tend to order a limited amount.Heres a list of cars for sale in italy


    https://www.autoscout24.it/risultati...ort=age&desc=1

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    Quote Originally Posted by guappo View Post
    There are loads of cars with hardly any options. The italians especially tend to order a limited amount.Heres a list of cars for sale in italy


    https://www.autoscout24.it/risultati...ort=age&desc=1
    Makes me even more sure it has **** all to do with Ferrari being 'disappointed' and far more to do with the dealer wanting to make every last penny they can out of the sale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssdu01 View Post
    I think the benefits of a carbon chassis on a road car are overrated.


    Sorry, but no...just no. The stiffness of the chassis is very apparent in driving, and it is lighter, no question.

    Don't fall for the PR BS from Ferrari and vast majority of car makers who don't use carbon.

    And by the way, (excepting P1 et al) I think only the new McLaren 720S is full carbon tub. From Lambo, only the Aventador. Lower McLarens and Huracan are partial carbon tubs.

    When/if Ferrari finally introduce full carbon tubs into the mid engine V8 range, they will make a HUGE song & dance about it being F1 tech

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    sssdu01 is offline Only 37 known common faults - The Ferrari 355 Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jas View Post
    Sorry, but no...just no. The stiffness of the chassis is very apparent in driving, and it is lighter, no question.
    And a road car has rubber in the suspension bushes so not sure how you can feel the stiffness ??? apart from a reduction in scuttle shake ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by guappo View Post
    There are loads of cars with hardly any options. The italians especially tend to order a limited amount.
    And these will have been the best value Ferrari's available when purchased new.

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    This is interesting. I have just bought a 458. I absolutely wouldn’t have bought a no option car (Partly because they seem to sit around for sale for quite while). I had a few must haves (shields, led steering wheel and upgrade wheels) and some things I ideally wanted (carbon dash, yellow r r3 calipers and race seats). In the end I was lucky and found the whole lot!

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