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old bentley or Rolls
- Thread starter markst
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Chriss
New member
Earlier this year I bought a 1999 Silver Seraph and my wife fell in love with it almost on first sight. It has proved to be a delight to own and I like it much more than I expected to.
So far we have done 3,000 miles including a 1,500 mile trip to France in September and it hasn't missed a beat.
I took advice from Steve Drewitt who owns Silver Lady Services in Bournemouth. Steve was a Rolls Royce apprentice and knows both Bentley and Rolls Royce cars inside and out.
I started off looking for a post war Silver Wraith or the equivalent Mk6 Bentley but Steve advised me to go for the Silver Seraph because it is modern, practical and one of the most reliable cars they have ever made.
It is much rarer than a Bentley Arnage or a Silver Shadow - they only made 1500 Seraphs compared with 20,000 Shadows of all types. Prices are on the up so depreciation should be no problem.
Steve explained that the Silver Seraph was designed under Vicker's ownership but put into production at Crewe by VW who had taken over the factory and spent £100m modernising it.
As they were losing Rolls Royce to BMW in a little over two years they made no effort marketing the Rolls version hence the low numbers made.
Vickers had signed a technology agreement with BMW and the car is unique in being the last Crewe-built Rolls Royce but it has lots of BMW kit on board as subsequently used in the Goodwood-built cars.
The heater and aircon controls, for example, are the same as on my 2003 X5 and it has a BMW 5.4 litre V12 which is light years ahead of the ancient V8 installed in the otherwise identical Bentley Arnage.
The V12 is powerful and smooth and on the French autoroutes will achieve 21.8mpg cruising at 90mph in near silence. The Bentley would struggle to make 15mpg !
The Shadow suffered from rust problems whereas the Seraph is properly rust proofed.
Whatever Rolls Royce you buy, I am sure you will enjoy it in a completely different way to the Ferrari. It encourages you to and gives you the greatest pleasure when being driven within the speed limits and if I had 9 points on my licence it would be the only car I drive. It's so relaxing that it would be the perfect car for someone who had suffered a heart attack !
I was going to Gaydon a couple of Sundays ago and it was wonderful to get up and be able to decide whether I was in a Ferrari or Rolls Royce driving mood.
I chose the Silver Seraph, just as well as there was a camera van on a bridge near Oxford and I would certainly have been nicked in the 575M.
Steve Drewitt has two Silver Seraphs currently on his books. The Silver one is a real beauty and has a sunroof. It won't show the dirt, unlike my dark blue one.
An important consideration when it's such a big car to wash ! Have a look at http://www.silverladyservices.co.uk/ You can buy with confidence as Steve will give you a full 6 months parts and labour warranty.
A standard annual service costs around £600 pa but be warned, parts are expensive and my car has had a couple of £2,000-£2,500 bills during its lifetime.
PS : I had to extend one of our garages by a foot to get it in, so measure up first !
I'm sure Chris' advice is true and correct, but I can't help but look at Silver Spirits instead :grin:
So much car for so little money...
So much car for so little money...
markst
Active member
thanks Chris I will have a look :thumbsup:
not sure about the Spirits though - they had nothing but a bad reputation for poor paint and not as pretty as the Turbo R - which is good value for money.
although, I must admit the Silver Shadow does the classic look very well , and I saw a stunning Grey one in the workshop of our local garage when I was getting fuel.
Chriss
New member
Silver Spirits are a real bargain at the moment. Whether they will ever go back up is open to discussion.
Silver Shadows have gone from less than £10,000 to mid £20,000s for a good one but I don't somehow think that's going to be the case with the Spirit.
I would be very concerned about buying a really cheap car. When values have fallen to rock bottom owners cut corners in maintenance and that is fatal with marques such as Ferrari and Rolls Royce.
Just as with a Ferrari, it pays to buy the very best car you can afford and if you can't or won't pay the money for a top car of your chosen model, you should buy something else !
I went for a Silver Seraph because of build quality and reliability plus, of all the more modern cars, I think it is the one most likely to appreciate in value.
There are far more of the equivalent Bentleys out there, of course, but the Rolls is a cut above them in style.
Even if I had the money, I would not buy a Goodwood Rolls Royce. They are huge and come from the brutalist style of architecture, are far more suited to Russian Billionaires and the Alan Sugars of this world.
However, if they appeal, a Phantom can now be bought for around £80,000, a long way short of the new price of £250-£300,000.
Incidentally, to provide a sense of perspective, a new Mercedes S Klasse starts at £67,000 but in my local dealer they have a new V12-engined S65 which is £194,000, that's three times the base price !
My Silver Seraph cost less than 20% of that S Klasse model and probably won't depreciate.
By the way, as well as Silver Lady in Bournemouth, there is another specialist to look at, Derek C Mowat in Edinburgh. He has a knack of finding really tip top cars.
Have a look at : http://www.derekcmowat.co.uk/
He currently has 10 Rolls Royce models including excellent examples of all three cars we are discussing here.
Mark, if you come over to Bournemouth to visit Steve Drewitt, give me a call and you can try my Silver Seraph at the same time.
Silver Shadows have gone from less than £10,000 to mid £20,000s for a good one but I don't somehow think that's going to be the case with the Spirit.
I would be very concerned about buying a really cheap car. When values have fallen to rock bottom owners cut corners in maintenance and that is fatal with marques such as Ferrari and Rolls Royce.
Just as with a Ferrari, it pays to buy the very best car you can afford and if you can't or won't pay the money for a top car of your chosen model, you should buy something else !
I went for a Silver Seraph because of build quality and reliability plus, of all the more modern cars, I think it is the one most likely to appreciate in value.
There are far more of the equivalent Bentleys out there, of course, but the Rolls is a cut above them in style.
Even if I had the money, I would not buy a Goodwood Rolls Royce. They are huge and come from the brutalist style of architecture, are far more suited to Russian Billionaires and the Alan Sugars of this world.
However, if they appeal, a Phantom can now be bought for around £80,000, a long way short of the new price of £250-£300,000.
Incidentally, to provide a sense of perspective, a new Mercedes S Klasse starts at £67,000 but in my local dealer they have a new V12-engined S65 which is £194,000, that's three times the base price !
My Silver Seraph cost less than 20% of that S Klasse model and probably won't depreciate.
By the way, as well as Silver Lady in Bournemouth, there is another specialist to look at, Derek C Mowat in Edinburgh. He has a knack of finding really tip top cars.
Have a look at : http://www.derekcmowat.co.uk/
He currently has 10 Rolls Royce models including excellent examples of all three cars we are discussing here.
Mark, if you come over to Bournemouth to visit Steve Drewitt, give me a call and you can try my Silver Seraph at the same time.
Damn you Chris - there's a lot on that guys stockist I really want! [emoji23] [emoji23]
And only 3 hours from me - this could be a problem...
And only 3 hours from me - this could be a problem...
Chriss
New member
I've been watching the Mowat website for a couple of years now. The quality of cars he has is the best I've ever seen and almost all are affordable.
I first found him when looking at XJSs. I had my own Bordeaux Red V12 from 1989 ( it was then 10 months old ) until two years ago when it was so rusty that it was beyond saving, unfortunately.
He had the most perfect example for £11,000 which had every MOT and been serviced every year at the main Edinburgh dealer. I hesitated and it was gone. Big mistake.
A friend in France' father used to have an old style Bentley Continental, the kind that now cost £800 grand, and he always wanted to buy a Bentley himself so I started by sending him examples from the Mowat website.
Unfortunately his wife wouldn't let him spend his own money on one. As a result I got more and more interested myself but, of course, I couldn't turn up at his house in France in a Bentley, could I ?
Hence we bought the Rolls Royce.
As you say, he has some seriously desirable cars. One day I know I will buy one from him.
I looked at a 2012 Continental in Bournemouth this week. What a lovely car but it was £85,000 when you can get a lowish mileage one a little older for around £30,000.
IF you could stand the fuel consumption, one would make a great everyday car, especially where you live as they have 4WD and you can fit a set of winter tyres.
A W12 Continental is the one car that could do a pretty good job of replacing our Rolls Royce, Ferrari and Audi with just one vehicle but don't tell Ann !
Derek has two good examples available now for around £30,000 .........
Go on : you know you want to !
I first found him when looking at XJSs. I had my own Bordeaux Red V12 from 1989 ( it was then 10 months old ) until two years ago when it was so rusty that it was beyond saving, unfortunately.
He had the most perfect example for £11,000 which had every MOT and been serviced every year at the main Edinburgh dealer. I hesitated and it was gone. Big mistake.
A friend in France' father used to have an old style Bentley Continental, the kind that now cost £800 grand, and he always wanted to buy a Bentley himself so I started by sending him examples from the Mowat website.
Unfortunately his wife wouldn't let him spend his own money on one. As a result I got more and more interested myself but, of course, I couldn't turn up at his house in France in a Bentley, could I ?
Hence we bought the Rolls Royce.
As you say, he has some seriously desirable cars. One day I know I will buy one from him.
I looked at a 2012 Continental in Bournemouth this week. What a lovely car but it was £85,000 when you can get a lowish mileage one a little older for around £30,000.
IF you could stand the fuel consumption, one would make a great everyday car, especially where you live as they have 4WD and you can fit a set of winter tyres.
A W12 Continental is the one car that could do a pretty good job of replacing our Rolls Royce, Ferrari and Audi with just one vehicle but don't tell Ann !
Derek has two good examples available now for around £30,000 .........
Go on : you know you want to !
The only thing stopping me is that we need a tourer for a daily - bike space.
I think everyone should have a Rolls at some point in their life, it's a box you need to tick IMO
I think everyone should have a Rolls at some point in their life, it's a box you need to tick IMO
JoyZipper
Active member
Derek is a nice guy. After I had enquired about buying a Koenigsegg (CC8S I think) that he had for sale a few years back, he asked if I would be interested in buying a spitfire with him
JoyZipper
Active member
Derek is a nice guy. After I had enquired about buying a Koenigsegg (CC8S I think) that he had for sale a few years back, he asked if I would be interested in buying a spitfire with him
The aircraft that is, not the car :laugh:
Chriss
New member
Spitfire consortium
Definitely our sort of guy, then !
Surprising that he never seems to buy in a Ferrari ?
Gordon : Bikes ! What a feeble excuse for not owning a Bentley !
The Continental boot is so deep front to back you could certainly get one bike in.
If you need two bikes, you could always have them sent on ahead - or get a Thule towbar-mounted bike rack.
Definitely our sort of guy, then !
Surprising that he never seems to buy in a Ferrari ?
Gordon : Bikes ! What a feeble excuse for not owning a Bentley !
The Continental boot is so deep front to back you could certainly get one bike in.
If you need two bikes, you could always have them sent on ahead - or get a Thule towbar-mounted bike rack.
We have 11 bikes - and regularly take 4 on our hols. An FF is what we need [emoji106]
Plus I'm not so keen on 'footballer' Bentleys - I prefer the older style, much more classy.
Chriss
New member
Four bikes on a holiday ? That sounds more like torture than a vacation.
The modern Bentleys do seem to have been rehabilitated after the dodgy Rooney period. The footballers have all migrated to buying cheap Range Rovers but they will shortly be able to waste much more cash buying the new Bentley SUV. It means that they've more or less left the Continental to people like us and I've noticed an increasing number of normal people running them lately.
Not surprising because they look good, go so well and are really affordable.
Having driven both, an Arnage or Silver Seraph is a car for a grand occasion or a leisurely holiday and they are really comfortable, light and airy for the passenger(s).
The SS is not happy on the Autoroute at over 100mph but up to 90mph it's perfect. The Arnage has slightly harder suspension so could go a bit faster without being too unsettled but when you arrive at the Alps in either you would want something more sporty to enjoy the mountain passes.
The Continental is much more of a driver's car and could swallow Europe whole at a rapid rate of knots. Compared with travelling in the 550 you would arrive at your distant hotel just as quickly but far more relaxed.
While I love both the Ferrari and the Rolls Royce, I suspect a good £30,000 Continental would do the work of both cars at least 90% as well. That has to make it a tremendous bargain.
The modern Bentleys do seem to have been rehabilitated after the dodgy Rooney period. The footballers have all migrated to buying cheap Range Rovers but they will shortly be able to waste much more cash buying the new Bentley SUV. It means that they've more or less left the Continental to people like us and I've noticed an increasing number of normal people running them lately.
Not surprising because they look good, go so well and are really affordable.
Having driven both, an Arnage or Silver Seraph is a car for a grand occasion or a leisurely holiday and they are really comfortable, light and airy for the passenger(s).
The SS is not happy on the Autoroute at over 100mph but up to 90mph it's perfect. The Arnage has slightly harder suspension so could go a bit faster without being too unsettled but when you arrive at the Alps in either you would want something more sporty to enjoy the mountain passes.
The Continental is much more of a driver's car and could swallow Europe whole at a rapid rate of knots. Compared with travelling in the 550 you would arrive at your distant hotel just as quickly but far more relaxed.
While I love both the Ferrari and the Rolls Royce, I suspect a good £30,000 Continental would do the work of both cars at least 90% as well. That has to make it a tremendous bargain.
cgt
Active member
I would only buy a 2006 or later Continental (or the newest model from 2011). The early ones had quite a few quality issues which I have experienced first hand.
The later ones (identified by different lights when the new model came out) are not cheap but there is a reason they command a premium. The V8 or V8S is the best of the lot, still plenty of torque and much lighter to steer and handle than the W12. The closest you will get to a real drivers car in a Bentley.
Chriss
New member
That sounds like very good advice. Would be interested in hearing more of your experience with them.
Cost is a relative term and I just checked and there are plenty of low mileage Continentals from 2007 onwards starting at around £35,000. Most have the W12, of course.
A huge amount of car for the money.
Cost is a relative term and I just checked and there are plenty of low mileage Continentals from 2007 onwards starting at around £35,000. Most have the W12, of course.
A huge amount of car for the money.
Modificato
Active member
Have done work for Crewe on-and-off post 2007 solving problems and design and engineering related stuff.
Anyway post 2007 continentals are hard to look beyond.
Stone axe reliability and such a massively massively capable car.
A virtually peerless Trans-continental coupe that only a bargain 2+2 Ferrari would make me walk past.
Design and engineering are in a different league to Ferrari and only Zonda does better interiors IMHO
I really believe Bentley (and VAG group as a whole) simply made too many of their prestige cars and ruined any collection potential (currently 200 a week FFS) but I would seek out a massively spec'd example and literally work back from the purchase price / condition / mileage equation.
I can see a continental in my future W12 GT speed model, Mulliner pack, cheque book thrown at options etc. Now where is my smoking jacket
Anyway post 2007 continentals are hard to look beyond.
Stone axe reliability and such a massively massively capable car.
A virtually peerless Trans-continental coupe that only a bargain 2+2 Ferrari would make me walk past.
Design and engineering are in a different league to Ferrari and only Zonda does better interiors IMHO
I really believe Bentley (and VAG group as a whole) simply made too many of their prestige cars and ruined any collection potential (currently 200 a week FFS) but I would seek out a massively spec'd example and literally work back from the purchase price / condition / mileage equation.
I can see a continental in my future W12 GT speed model, Mulliner pack, cheque book thrown at options etc. Now where is my smoking jacket
Nigel Jeffery Specialist Cars
New member
oh yes....a GTC in gunmetal with a Burgundy roof
chavvy imo :thumbsdow