My Argento 360

[Mike01606]

No progress this week apart from stripping the air box and a few other trims off.....



I just need to give it a really good clean off but the weather isn’t playing ATM.
Apart from I’ve covered earlier I’ve not found much that needs too much attention.
The gearbox mount seems to be fine with no sag.

I found another actuator on eBay showing the sensor (and sensor shaft removed).



Voicey helpfully send me some pics also of a 430 style one showing the seal that fails and allows trans oil into the sensors.
I think to get to this I’d need to remove and strip the actuator (or send for rebuilding) and I’m reluctant to do this at the point as it all works so well and leakage values are very low.
I’ll keep researching and thinking about it......

Only other question.....
Has anyone any top tips (other than penetrating oil) for getting the fasteners out that fasten the grilles to the rear bumper. I’d like to get them powder coated but there are a lot of fasteners and they all seem pretty solid and screwed into GRP? I certainly don’t want to shear them.







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[Modificato]

Great updates.
Anything that de-mystifies what's under the skin has to be a good thing.

Keep it coming

[Mike01606]

Travelling today so time to kill....

I’m thinking a bit off-piste about modifying the sensor attachment.



The sensor sits on a mount which has a unique part number so I will try to get one ordered tomorrow.



I will then look to either install a seal in the mount (difficult and unlikely unless it is solid plastic) or get a new mount manufactured in brass with an oil seal installed.
If I can actually buy the part as a template, I only need the shaft diameter to manufacture it and worse case I can measure mine.

This doesn’t solve the actual problem as the actuator shaft seal will still be leaking but I can keep the oil out of the sensor and control where it does and doesn’t go. As before this is very common.

It appears the leaking seal is where the shaft passes from the actuator fingers to the sensor housing. Circled below.



So.....anyone have any thoughts on this and can recommend a reasonable machine shop who can manufacture the part in metal?

[MWStewart]

Following with interest, Mike.

Dremel or saw a slot in those screws to enable you to use a large flat blade driver.

If I've understood your idea correctly you would like to live with the internal shaft leak but create a seal on the adapter plate between actuator body and the pots. My only thought is that those pots aren't designed to run wet, so unless you can be sure that oil won't get to them, I'd be weary of a potential reliability issue as that internal seal degrades further and lets more gearbox oil into the front of the actuator body.

Do you think you can seal the pot shaft reasonably well?

[Mike01606]

Following with interest, Mike.

Dremel or saw a slot in those screws to enable you to use a large flat blade driver.

If I've understood your idea correctly you would like to live with the internal shaft leak but create a seal on the adapter plate between actuator body and the pots. My only thought is that those pots aren't designed to run wet, so unless you can be sure that oil won't get to them, I'd be weary of a potential reliability issue as that internal seal degrades further and lets more gearbox oil into the front of the actuator body.

Do you think you can seal the pot shaft reasonably well?

That’s about it Mark......

I have a new adaptor plate on its way from Italy to use as a template.
I’ve now idea if it could work until I take the sensor off. If the sensor shaft is round and I have enough clearance I should be able to seal it.

The leak is currently very slight and the switch is just damp or misted with oil.
My current thinking is to seal the shaft and allow the oil out in a place away from the sensor.

Of course the real solution is to have the actuator rebuilt but the hydraulic side is working perfectly with low leakage numbers and I am reluctant to disturb it until a rebuild is really needed. It’s the reliability issue that bothers me as your correct, once oil gets in it could get a bit flaky.

If I was selling the car I’d just change it, but as I’m keeping it, I can keep an eye on it....

On the screws I can get plenty of purchase on them but they feel like they will shear and that’s the last think I want with them fastened into GRP.
It’s probably a long winter evening (in the conservatory) with a bottle of wine and plenty of patience.....

[Mike01606]

I’ll add a post to this thread that I’d originally posted as a question on the FChat technical section and I think I then answered myself.......

Very occasionally I’d noticed a very slight clutch drag in 1st gear when the car was very hot.
I’d taken the car to my tech who’d checked the gearbox primary shaft in neutral and said it wasn’t rotating so the clutch was open. At the time he increased the PIS to what I thought was 4.7 from 4.6.

Since then and late in the Summer I noticed it again (but not on 3400 miles around Europe!).
I again took it in and my tech checked it and said all was OK but did add the pressure plates can get tired with age and not fully open the clutch.
The clutch is about 35% worn and 22k miles old but he said it may be getting ready for replacement.

I then had a look at home.....
Looking at the clutch position in Neutral it is at 9.9mm



In first and reverse the clutch moves to 11.8mm or closes by 2mm. This must be a “pre-start” location (and a good reason to select N at stops rather than hold on the brake).





Of the course the gearbox primary doesn’t rotate in gear as it is locked by the wheels on the ground.

So it should be a simple PIS increase to stop the drag and I think the clutch is fine.

For the record the leakage parameters are 42cc/min with the clutch EV OFF and 3cc/min with the clutch EV ON.
I’ll check the limits later but these are well below.

M



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[Mike01606]

This is what the clutch position looks like across the range of travel....Apols for the paper sketch ;)



If I’ve understood the operation correctly the clutch (technically the release bearing) should be 2mm from the kiss point when a gear is selected.

My old none adjustable TCU used to calibrate itself to a PIS of 6.3. I can probably understand why now.

[MWStewart]

Interesting stuff, Mike. I think your actuator idea can work if you do employ the drain.

[Mike01606]

Work and other commitments mean I haven’t picked up the part yet but looking into it a bit further I can’t see it working....and TBH it’s a bit of a bodge/sticking plaster which I’d struggle with.

So I see three options....

1. Leave alone for now. It seems to be common and working perfectly.

2. Remove the actuator and send for a rebuild.
There’s a question with that though.....who to?
There’s a guy in Didcot who offers the service for a comparatively reasonable price. I spoke to him a while back and he seemed very knowledgable but I’ve no direct feedback on his rebuilds. I can call again though and see how long they’ve been in the field.

3. Take some brave pills and take it apart myself and replace the faulty seal (and any others that I can source).
I’ve done plenty of this type of stuff before in a previous life (Mike D (swynradar) once called me...a “fitter with a handbag” which isn’t that unfair, but he knows the truth ;)).

The rebuild services are quite expensive but that is because of set-up costs for low volume work and they have to stand-by the service whereas I don’t.

Good advice I’ve had is leave alone but I can’t help think this could be a reseal. My time is free and I could still go 3 then 2 if I fail......

When I’m researching I generally look for images/patent drawings rather than read material that might be wrong but there is an absolute vacuum on info out there.....

Decisions?....

[MWStewart]

I can vouch for Simon Stoj. He's a good chap and knows the F1 system well.