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Thread: No Longer the New New Thing

  1. #1
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    Default No Longer the New New Thing

    Just posted a new blog on No Longer the New New Thing:

    https://karenable.com/no-longer-the-new-new-thing/

    Comments?

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    Nosevi's Avatar
    Nosevi is offline Post whore with no life, no friends, and a problem fitting into normal social circles Super Moderator
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    Interesting read.

    I’ve always favoured the ‘analogue masterpieces’ to the ‘technology showcases’, and for much the same reason as the reason you’ve given for the slide in price of the latter vs the former category. The only thing I’d say is I think it’ll be quite a long time before the likes of a LaF or P1 are considered a ‘classic’. I think there was a bit of a step change in the 80s/90s where cars got power steering, intelligent suspension, flappy paddles etc, and it’s going to be a while before cars with all this tech feel ‘classic’. The point about the increasing costs of maintaining this tech as it gets old and breaks is also valid and I’d expect the maintenance of a LaF will far outstrip that of an F40 before long if it doesn’t already.

    I actually think this is slightly reflected in the ‘normal’ cars many of us own. Give it 10-15 years and the cost of maintaining a 360 or 430 will far outstrip a 308/328 etc. It’s inevitable - tech costs money to fix and when the relatively early tech starts to break running costs will rise. Equally early F1 boxes and clever suspension systems aren’t going to feel classic any time soon (imo). Maybe those earlier tech models will be seen as a bit ‘retro’ at some point but I think ‘classic’ is a long way off.

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    Mike01606 is offline Kid's bed - The Ferrari F50 Club Member
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    Default No Longer the New New Thing

    Can’t disagree with any of the article at all....maybe the 959 being ugly is a barrier also
    The tech discussion is quite interesting....
    What’s kept many older cars going is non-dealer specialist support and access for DIY enthusiasts.
    I’d currently draw the tech line at DSG boxes and carbon brakes being barriers for many enthusiast owners like the batteries etc are for major hypercar collectors.
    The F1 tech has its issues but it’s a pretty simple system automating the same manual boxes.
    The DSG box is just an expensive sealed exchange unit.
    Not many enthusiasts will want to drop 10k on 4 brake discs either...
    Power steering, suspension etc is not a factor....electronics maybe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike01606 View Post
    Can’t disagree with any of the article at all....maybe the 959 being ugly is a barrier also
    The tech discussion is quite interesting....
    What’s kept many older cars going is non-dealer specialist support and access for DIY enthusiasts.
    I’d currently draw the tech line at DSG boxes and carbon brakes being barriers for many enthusiast owners like the batteries etc are for major hypercar collectors.
    The F1 tech has its issues but it’s a pretty simple system automating the same manual boxes.
    The DSG box is just an expensive sealed exchange unit.
    Not many enthusiasts will want to drop 10k on 4 brake discs either...
    Power steering, suspension etc is not a factor....electronics maybe.
    I think I agree with where the 'line' is (ie DSG boxes etc), my point was more on the costs and how they will start to rise on the older, newer cars as things start to wear out. Taking F1 as an example, sure, F1 is just an automated system running the same gear box so no big deal...….. but they will go eventually. That happens in an older car like mine and you're talking replacing a cable and if you're particularly unlucky, a bolt or nut or something. F1 gives up the ghost on a 430 or 360 and you're not going to get it refurbed for the cost of a piece of wire. Spread that out over the whole car and a 430 (when it gets old) will cost more to maintain than say a 328 or 348. It is, as I said, totally inevitable.

    Edit: Totally agree with the 959 comment - what were they thinking?!?!?!?
    Last edited by Nosevi; 07-06-2019 at 06:26 PM.

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    "just another used limited edition supercar" about sums it up. Very few cars have possessed that magic something that has made them immune from the laws of depreciation. Most cars that have become "classics" in old age, have been through the depreciation process before ultimately become appreciating assets, but old age is no guarantee of classic status.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebottle View Post
    "just another used limited edition supercar" about sums it up. Very few cars have possessed that magic something that has made them immune from the laws of depreciation. Most cars that have become "classics" in old age, have been through the depreciation process before ultimately become appreciating assets, but old age is no guarantee of classic status.
    Could not agree more. Cant think of a single car over 10 years old that didn't drop below its original list price at some point in its life.

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    Modificato is offline Looks like a 308 to me? -The Ferrari 288 GTO Club Member
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    I am in my 50's but don't get any hero worship of many older iconic cars.

    I have driven or been a passenger in many icons - countach, F40, F50, Testarossa, Enzo, which in my experience are so badly engineered I genuinely could never enjoy ownership of any of them. That era of cars to me were just so shoddily built and designed I can't love them and as they have gone stratospheric in value I don't care. I totally get the thing that some people like tinkering with their classics, or they love the icons of their youth, but that's not for me. Neither is and paying crazy money just to keep something on the road for a couple of decent road trips a year. In most of my life I am looking for the next thing, the better tech, the new music, new places to go, new problems to solve in my work.

    I think the so-called 'classic car' market has not got that long to live like it has and has been totally ruined anyway by investment enthusiasts of which there are way too many, or the deluded "it's free motoring" modern classic argument which never stacks up when the cars are actually used, serviced and maintained.

    Buy a good simulator would be my advice to the next generation, or wait for the inevitable, UBer, or classic on demand rental service. Save your money for the new stuff.
    Last edited by Modificato; 10-06-2019 at 10:57 AM.

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    For me the defining thing is to ask yourself the question, are you driving the car, or are you driving the equivalent of a play station on the road ? There will be exceptions, but generally the cars where you are driving will be the more desirable, those where the electronics etc are doing more than the driver to keep you on the road less desirable.

    The reason for this ? Most people drive a stupidly faster car for fun rather than as a daily, and for a lot of people a big element of the fun is to be able to push the car and feel like you are still in controls and winning. This means feeling the car slide a little as you push it and feeling like you are "on the edge" (when in reality a lot of drivers are no where near the limit). The older more analogue cars let you feel like a race driver, whereas the more modern "digital" machines dont give that feeling, as they are just so capable and fast, most driver chicken out before they even feel the car is approaching the limit.

    Another issue for me is the older cars will give a more involved "faster" feeling at a lower speed, whereas the more modern stuff I have driven (488's etc) are just so capable and so fast I would end up in jail, as opposed to a few point and a fine !!

    Throw in the very high costs of some gearboxes/batteries/etc (which will have a huge impact on the investment potential), along the disappointment of the sound turbo cars make, and I think a lot of people just wont buy the modern supercar/hypercars, but might just look down the evolution chain and get something a bit older for probably half the price.

    Just ask yourself the question. Would you want to drive a turbo nutter evo 99 ricer, with computer controlled everything that has the newest everything on it, or drive a slightly older Ferrari with little or no driver aids, and a high revving V8 ??

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    Modificato is offline Looks like a 308 to me? -The Ferrari 288 GTO Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sssdu01 View Post
    Just ask yourself the question. Would you want to drive a turbo nutter evo 99 ricer, with computer controlled everything that has the newest everything on it, or drive a slightly older Ferrari with little or no driver aids, and a high revving V8 ??
    In a nutshell - for me it’s the EVO - all day everyday

    Loads of enthusiasts like traction engines and old stuff - I assume that’s so they can “feel the road, get more detailed feedback through the solid rubber tyres and chain steering”. There are plenty of track days and events to wring your car out these days so whilst I get your point about increasing performance to suggest it’s less emotional or involving doesn’t actually bear examination once you have driven them. A Huracan is ALL of a countach and more -as is a 488 Pista vs. A 360CS.

    I like supercars precisely because they represent the latest, greatest, most extreme etc. They exist for that reason in the first place. I guess I am like Enzo “the best is the next one”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post

    l like supercars precisely because they represent the latest, greatest, most extreme etc. They exist for that reason in the first place. I guess I am like Enzo “the best is the next one”.
    So why do you drive a 599 and a 430 ? I wouldnt put either of these in the "latest, greatest, most extreme" category.

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