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Thread: Hypercar Saturation

  1. #21
    Modificato is offline Nowhere to put the shopping -The Ferrari F40 Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by A348W View Post
    Our paths may well have crossed if that was when they were setting up the old green marine facility in Lymington for the Shannon as I was doing a few jobs for them at the time. I was also trying to sell noise and vibration capability to sunseeker et al at the time.

    Some very general observations:
    - the likes of sunseeker/princess are mostly about mass production, similar to any car company where they deal directly with the end client and you pick your options from a set menu and await delivery to your chosen marina. (Although there is another zero or two on the price tag compared to a car).
    - Some of these companies have pushed into the bottom end of the superyacht market, where the customisation opens up, but within defined exterior styles and interior layouts. With interior styling really limited by what the client will pay for. Similar I guess to Ferraris Taylor Made programme. Interestingly its here that the client relationship changes, that they are not just dealing with the client, but their skipper/project manager/team, and the requirements grow in complexity. Some company's can deal with this and understand it, others don't.
    - next up is typically bigger yachts where they are sold with more options for customisation on interior layout and some exterior styling, but with a common hull form/propulsion line up (akin to engine/floor pan in a car). With the client team growing to include dedicated interior designers as wells as project management/ technical teams; probably similar to Ferraris custom cars (don't know what that programme is called)/Pininfarina Battist territory!
    - then we get into full customisation, where everything is as the owner wants it. Hull form, propulsion line up, interior layout, exterior styling, toy lockers etc etc. The interiors are typically all custom from the furniture, carpets, fabrics, cutlery, door handles, entertainment systems, lighting etc etc. Small example, but one yacht, the lights on the exteriors deck took 125 hrs each to make just the surrounds and there were 40-50 of just them!! This is off into the 100s million-billions territory. I don't see an equivalent in the car world at the moment, but as people search for exclusivity, as you say, I don't see why not...and at the end of the day the cost of a custom car would be pocket change in comparison to a yacht or plane.

    (Apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread.)
    Thanks for the insights - there are exact parallels in our world including the one-off everything bespoke example at the end. Indeed we have a customer who calls his car the f-off car. It’s lines are very individual so “if you don’t like it you can F-off” he paid for all the tooling, prototypes, spares etc all of which he keeps so if anyone else want one “they can F-off too”. He is all about the ego of having one-of-one and he is not alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    he paid for all the tooling, prototypes, spares etc
    Can you advise what base vehicle in particular engine etc was used or was the whole thing utterly bespoke in which case what engine size/configuration did it end up with ? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by jos View Post
    Can you advise what base vehicle in particular engine etc was used or was the whole thing utterly bespoke in which case what engine size/configuration did it end up with ? Thanks
    Powertrain was done by Ricardo and others.
    V8 Twin Turbo.
    There was no base vehicle that was the whole point.
    When asked why?
    “Because I can” and “I am only interested in one of one” and “I only everything the engineering, the tooling, the design, so even if someone wants one like it they can’t have one”. His mission was driven by Bugatti selling a car “way too close” to the one he had....

    Nothing like a pissed off rich guy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    Nothing like a pissed off rich guy
    - thanks

    Would it be road legal ? I'm guessing for such a one-off IVA (or whatever its called this week) might almost be easier than homologation type compliance ?

    I'm kind of asking if you can tell us any more of your involvement to engineer/create - without compromising confidentlality obviously

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    Quote Originally Posted by jos View Post
    without compromising confidentlality obviously
    If someone had gone to all those lengths to be able to say "Look what I've got - it's 1 of 1 and always will be!" why would they be bothered about confidentiality? Just asking because there's no point in making that sort of statement then hiding it away, or it ceases to be a statement and becomes every so slightly irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosevi View Post
    If someone had gone to all those lengths to be able to say "Look what I've got - it's 1 of 1 and always will be!" why would they be bothered about confidentiality? Just asking because there's no point in making that sort of statement then hiding it away, or it ceases to be a statement and becomes every so slightly irrelevant.
    The confidentiality aspect is not to hide the product it is most often to hide who actually did the real work vs. who was commissioned / subcontracted / badge engineered and hence brings perceived value to various parts of the design and build. This is especially true if the story includes a big name OEM / Designer ‘personality’ selected to bring kudos to the project. When eventually the work is given to someone to actually do the bulk of the work of design and manufacturing it is often not the outfit whose name is on the cad models / cam covers / bonnet badges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    The confidentiality aspect is not to hide the product it is most often to hide who actually did the real work vs. who was commissioned / subcontracted / badge engineered and hence brings perceived value to various parts of the design and build. This is especially true if the story includes a big name OEM / Designer ‘personality’ selected to bring kudos to the project. When eventually the work is given to someone to actually do the bulk of the work of design and manufacturing it is often not the outfit whose name is on the cad models / cam covers / bonnet badges.
    Fair enough. I’ll be honest though, that makes the whole thing seem even more ridiculous to me than it already did. Their money, their choice, but to want something badged as a given brand to add ‘perceived value’ even if it’s not actually designed/manufactured by that brand speaks volumes about the people doing this. What on earth is the point? All the money in the world and if I wanted say a Ferrari one of the first things I’d want to be sure of is that it was made by Ferrari. Otherwise it’s not a Ferrari. Call me picky.......

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    [QUOTE=Nosevi;839780]Fair enough. I’ll be honest though, that makes the whole thing seem even more ridiculous to me than it already did. Their money, their choice, but to want something badged as a given brand to add ‘perceived value’ even if it’s not actually designed/manufactured by that brand speaks volumes about the people doing this. What on earth is the point? All the money in the world and if I wanted say a Ferrari one of the first things I’d want to be sure of is that it was made by Ferrari. Otherwise it’s not a Ferrari. Call me picky.......[/

    This part of the market already has four or five collector Ferrari’s, A veyron or two, a Pagini, a Koenigsegg et al...

    This is a partial example of what is going on. (Not one of ours but we are very familiar with the project)

    Well known that the guy already has an extensive multi-car collection with GTO etc.

    https://www.bamfordautodepartment.com/?page_id=2781

    The ‘BAD’ 275 as it is literally badged as such on the bonnet and on its cam covers. Starts life as an old 456GT but ends up far from it. The instigator has had one done for himself and some others for friends...

    It is not as extreme as the one of one projects (of which there are more than you would hope) but that is likely where this particular customer goes next... his son is rebadging / customising watches of course...

    Ask yourself would you want a Singer Porsche? After all they are just hot-rod Porsche’s - they are currently looking for a European based partner to help satisfy their huge order book...

    Are they re-manufacturing or modifying?

    What would you have a new GT3/GT3RS or a singer?

    The thing about massive wealth is actually finding ways to spend it esp when you already have a shed load of standard ‘collectibles.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post

    This part of the market already has four or five collector Ferrari’s, A veyron or two, a Pagini, a Koenigsegg et al...

    This is a partial example of what is going on. (Not one of ours but we are very familiar with the project)

    Well known that the guy already has an extensive multi-car collection with GTO etc.

    https://www.bamfordautodepartment.com/?page_id=2781

    The ‘BAD’ 275 as it is literally badged as such on the bonnet and on its cam covers. Starts life as an old 456GT but ends up far from it. The instigator has had one done for himself and some others for friends...

    It is not as extreme as the one of one projects (of which there are more than you would hope) but that is likely where this particular customer goes next... his son is rebadging / customising watches of course...

    Ask yourself would you want a Singer Porsche? After all they are just hot-rod Porsche’s - they are currently looking for a European based partner to help satisfy their huge order book...

    Are they re-manufacturing or modifying?

    What would you have a new GT3/GT3RS or a singer?

    The thing about massive wealth is actually finding ways to spend it esp when you already have a shed load of standard ‘collectibles.
    I know, in passing but not well, one or two in this part of the market who have the Supercar collection etc. I just don’t think a chopped down 456 with a 275 body kit (I know it’s far more involved than that) is particularly special whereas I think an actual 275 is quite special. I just don’t see the point in it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosevi View Post
    I know, in passing but not well, one or two in this part of the market who have the Supercar collection etc. I just don’t think a chopped down 456 with a 275 body kit (I know it’s far more involved than that) is particularly special whereas I think an actual 275 is quite special. I just don’t see the point in it.
    Neither do I but all that proves is that you and I are not in this part of the market - I am not sure I would be even if could afford it either. Having said that when I was homeless and living rough at 16 I never imagined I would own a ferrari let alone two and a car company...

    Never say never

    BTW the guy who commissioned the modern 275’s for him and his close friends has one of the ‘real’ ones too...
    Last edited by Modificato; 29-11-2019 at 12:23 AM.

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