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Thread: Lets Have a Heated Debate...

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    Modificato is offline Looks like a 308 to me? -The Ferrari 288 GTO Club Member
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    Default Lets Have a Heated Debate...



    Enzo Ferrari famously said "The best Ferrari is the next one"

    BUT...he also said "Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines"

    Given the man was as fallible as we all are on what occasions have Ferrari's next cars NOT been better than a predecessor?

    Lets keep it to two groups:

    V8's

    V12's
    Last edited by Modificato; 27-11-2020 at 11:53 AM.

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    308 carb vs 308i

    GT4 vs Mondial
    Last edited by jos; 27-11-2020 at 12:30 PM.

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    A348W is offline I mince along like a girl Club Member
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    An interesting YouTube thing by a guy in pyjamas the other day on Ferrari and power and where do they and others go from here ie 1000hp cars that are technological marvels, but in effect unusable on the road and sole less.

    "Better" is obviously somewhat subjective but I'll put my neck on the line here, and say the next generation of cars wont be better than what we have now in terms of those very subjective qualities of driving experience and sole. How do you put "sole" into a Zanussi or an Ipad? Even tubi and Capi wont be able to do anything with the next generation!


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    Modificato is offline Looks like a 308 to me? -The Ferrari 288 GTO Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by A348W View Post
    An interesting YouTube thing by a guy in pyjamas the other day on Ferrari and power and where do they and others go from here ie 1000hp cars that are technological marvels, but in effect unusable on the road and sole less.

    "Better" is obviously somewhat subjective but I'll put my neck on the line here, and say the next generation of cars wont be better than what we have now in terms of those very subjective qualities of driving experience and sole. How do you put "sole" into a Zanussi or an Ipad? Even tubi and Capi wont be able to do anything with the next generation!

    Good point, was in Maranello in summer and Tubistyle have a brand new shiny facility that looks like no one has told them what is coming down the line...

    Back on topic the re-introduction of soul is something we are discussing a lot with the OEM's at work. The fear of the zanussi-factor is high so in the example above was the adoption of fuel injection a step taken too early and resulted in a loss of soul and is this the kind of line Ferrari has to tread that it doesn't always get right?

    550 to 575?

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    I'm not sure you can ever use something Enzo said as supporting evidence for an argument; much like this example, he constantly contradicted himself and almost all of his quotes need to be taken in the context of both his audience and the point he was trying to make at that precise time. Added to which, only a very foolish car salesman would ever say his next car wouldn't be his best.

    For me the cars have lost something along the way and I'm talking all cars not just Ferraris, call it soul (which I believe is much like sole...... ) but at the same time gained something in terms of usability, performance and reliability. It's been a step by step process with generally each car being objectively better but not necessarily subjectively so. Question really needs to be, can you have both? Can you have tech that brings you closer to the machine and experience rather than more detached from it? Aside from the ability to put the rear window down to hear the engine better while the roof is still up, I'm struggling to think of any recent innovation in automotive design that achieves that in any significant way.

    Of course a lot of the tech is driven by legislation - I may lament the loss of twin choke Webbers but you'd never get an engine running on carbs to pass modern emission standards. Almost everyone who sees my car for the first time says they love the pop up lights, but I believe those were made illegal on a new car at some point. I know people who dislike the newer airbag wheel on a 355 and have sought out an early one, yet airbags are a nifty thing to have when it all goes wrong. I guess my point is some tech is forced upon us, what I think car manufacturers have to be careful of is adding to that with tech that isolates the driver from the experience.

    Perhaps that's why I found the Monza SP1 and SP2 to be an interesting concept/model pairing. I'm sure they're packed with tech but with their nod to the past they give the impression at least of going back to a simpler, more engaging form of driving. Having a model range with this concept, not at the hypercar end of the market but below the V8 range, light weight and powered by V6s perhaps would be an interesting way to go. Could even call them the Dino perhaps, just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    550 to 575?
    I may be slightly biased but I don't think this was a mis-step - maybe the two cars were different but the upgrades were state of the art at the time even if it became a slightly more boulevard car and now is less well thought of than the 550 mainly due to the latter's manual aspect & the F1 dating less well - for me the F1 transmission was an encouragement to buy and I'd still rather have my 575 back (but I'm not giving Justin Banks fifty grand for it) than either a 550 or 599

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    Modificato is offline Looks like a 308 to me? -The Ferrari 288 GTO Club Member
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    interesting, great to hear from actual owners as journo's generally don't spend time and miles with cars to get to really know them.

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    Default Lets Have a Heated Debate...

    250 > 275 series and quite a few other mingers around that period like most of the 330ís

    512 > TRís

    F12 > 812

    328 > 348

    355 > 360 > 430

    458 > 488

    All IMO of course


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    It's a very good question and of course Enzo's quote was in that era of pretty much handbuilt cars with V12 engines.

    Hard to know what he would make of today's cars though he would no doubt marvel at the outputs. He would have accepted turbos, as he did in period

    Impossible to know what he would have thought of hybrids or even aerodynamics.

    He wasn't really that interested in road cars - they were just a means to an end, and whatever it took to win in racecars was OK, and that if that went down to road cars to support the racecars, all well and good.

    So if the next and next cars are quicker then Enzo would probably be happy if he had been alive to see the new techy stuff.

    But as some of us get older, as I am , we are happier to live with and understand the technology of our time. Maybe Enzo would have been the same.

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    246 >> 308 and all the rest of the V8s

    550/575 > 599/F12/812

    Mainly on aesthetic grounds.

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