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Thread: Ferrari SUV

  1. #21
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    A348W is offline Only 37 known common faults - The Ferrari 355 Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosevi View Post
    In defence of the SUV I think it depends where you live and what you're using it for. Down in Surry you may well have a point but out here in the provinces where many of the roads aren't cleared in winter or to tow a few tons of boat, it's a lot more use than a small hatchback might be. Horses for course as they say.
    This is true, but the vast majority of people just do not need an SUV for any practicable reasons, they are not any safer nor bigger inside than a comparable saloon or estate; the main reasons trumpeted for them.


    That said, oddly enough interesting article on the BBC this morning...whilst lots of arguments on both sides of the fence, the last two para are I think the most interesting...pulling the obvious biased to find information that supports your theory The tide might be turning?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56647128

    "A study by the International Energy Agency said increasing demand for SUVs is the second biggest contributor to the growth in carbon emissions.

    Annual emissions from SUVs rose to more than 700 megatonnes of CO2, and if SUV drivers were a country, they would be the seventh in the world for carbon emissions."

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by A348W View Post
    This is true, but the vast majority of people just do not need an SUV for any practicable reasons, they are not any safer nor bigger inside than a comparable saloon or estate; the main reasons trumpeted for them.


    That said, oddly enough interesting article on the BBC this morning...whilst lots of arguments on both sides of the fence, the last two para are I think the most interesting...pulling the obvious biased to find information that supports your theory The tide might be turning?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56647128

    "A study by the International Energy Agency said increasing demand for SUVs is the second biggest contributor to the growth in carbon emissions.

    Annual emissions from SUVs rose to more than 700 megatonnes of CO2, and if SUV drivers were a country, they would be the seventh in the world for carbon emissions."
    An interesting argument but it depends a little on what's driving/powering an SUV. An SUV running on carbon neutral petrol will put out the same CO2 as a small hatchback running on carbon neutral petrol ie none

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    A couple of artist impressions of the SUV.
    .
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosevi View Post
    An interesting argument but it depends a little on what's driving/powering an SUV. An SUV running on carbon neutral petrol will put out the same CO2 as a small hatchback running on carbon neutral petrol ie none
    Sorry but your missing the point.

    SUVs are heavier and larger (greater aero resistance) than a saloon, thus whatever is powering them requires more energy than the comparable saloon car. Its a spiral to the bottom, heavier/bigger the car the more power is required, more power required the heavier they are.

    So if they are EV, then you need more batteries to power them than an equivalent saloon, thus more strip mining rare earth minerals and more child labour. Even BMW have recently acknowledge this stating that EV wont work well for SUVs due to their size/weight and they are looking to hydrogen or something else.

    The point that is being made is most people do not need an SUV and whatever is powering them ICE/EV/hydrogen etc, you need far more of it than you do for the equivalent saloon car; so with respect to environmental credentials they are a big fat negative. (And that's before you count the env. impact off the increased materials usage!)

  5. #25
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    I'm not really. My point was simply if it was ICE powered by 100% carbon neutral petrol (ie zero net CO2 emissions) then however much you burn makes no difference to CO2 - every gramme of CO2 you put into the atmosphere came out of the atmosphere. You aren’t adding any. In effect you are powering the car by solar and wind and storing the energy in hydrocarbons taken from the atmosphere then simply put back.

    I’m not making an argument for people needing SUVs. I’m simply saying the mpg argument disappears if the energy is 100% green, and I mean actually green not ‘EV green’.
    Last edited by Nosevi; 07-04-2021 at 07:14 PM.

  6. #26
    Modificato is offline Nowhere to put the shopping -The Ferrari F40 Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosevi View Post
    I donÂ’t dislike SUVs, I drive a Skoda Yeti much of the time, I used to drive a Jeep Cherokee. Really useful vehicles out where I live especially in the winter for my wife to get to the primary school where she works right out in the sticks. Had I been a little wealthier rather than in the military my standard SUV may well have been a luxury SUV. I have nothing against SUVs and may always have one.

    IÂ’m sorry, Mod, but it has bugger all to do with liking SUVs or not. If you think Ferrari *need* to diversify into SUVs in order to survive I respectfully think youÂ’re wrong. If waiting times for Ferrari sports cars and GTs are now 2 years does that sound like they are struggling to find a market for them? I doubt that will change with emerging markets increasing demand for luxury products - even if much or even most of that extra demand is for SUVs over sports cars, itÂ’s still extra demand.

    I understand business is about making money and making an SUV will make Ferrari money. But when a business becomes JUST about making money and the direction of a company is totally steered by the bean counters a company can lose something in the process.

    By your own admission you’re looking at it as a ‘shareholder’ - you’re looking at the bottom line and the possibility to make more money. The rest of us (while some are also shareholders) are looking at it from the stand point of enthusiasts. This is, as it says up top, ‘The Ferrari enthusiasts’ club’ and not ‘The Ferrari investors club’ at the end of the day.
    I am both a shareholder and an enthusiast, I have zero interest in the long term value of my Ferrari's as i have written off their value in my mind. After my life changing experience all I want to do is drive them memorably until i either get bored or die. Believe me the luxury car game is a hiding to nothing unless you like doing interesting stuff and making wafer thin margins (maybe).

    Ferrari don't need to diversify into SUV's to survive, they need to do it to remain relevant and viable long term. We know they are not struggling to find buyers now for their current line up but....

    What did the FF do?

    What was it for?

    What was its strategic purpose?

    Ferrari's flagship models were always understated 2+2's and they channeled the bread van to create a possible cool alternative to the SUV - it failed to do so.

    Want to know why?

    Want to know who continues to drive the explosion demand for luxury SUV's?

    Have a guess?

    Family SUV's outsell everything 2:1 and climbing - the women have entered the showrooms, half the money to spend and more and they want a big solid, warm, secure, and protective chunk of luxury to transport themselves and their family in LUXURY and SAFETY.

    They are the four wheel equivalent of the beefy Fireman calendar and the saville row suited suitor in one.

    Look what has happened to dealerships?

    Why do Ferrari dealerships now look like high end boutiques?

    Todays kids are not riding in dads Ford Escort RS1600 like I was or clocking his Pirelli calendar nor even My grandma's Lotus Cortina (true story) - They are riding in sports utility vehicles and so are the majority of their friends.

    They may dream of supercars but they will likely only get one if they are permitted to have toy for themselves once the family is provided for (or are single and wealthy).
    Last edited by Modificato; 07-04-2021 at 11:05 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    Ferrari don't need to diversify into SUV's to survive, they need to do it to remain relevant and viable long term.
    Make your mind up, Mod - they either need to do it to remain viable and survive or they don’t. You clearly think they do. I think they don’t. It’s not like they cater for a mass market right now (as you keep telling us). Unless people totally stop wanting sports/super cars there’ll always be a place for them even without SUVs.

    I don’t think an SUV will be the end of Ferrari. I just don’t think they need to do it. Make the nice luxury SUVs Maseratis, I’m not saying don’t make them, I’m just saying that when you start badging SUVs (maybe sporty little hatchbacks too if they become all the rage again, or perhaps estate cars?) as Ferraris you will ‘dilute’ the brand a bit and take it away from it’s core ‘ethos’. I know it’s not the full saying but “Jack of all trades but master of none.” Comes to mind.

    On another note I like the idea of pinning it all on women, I’ll go with that

    And actually, SUVs may not be quite the ‘nemesis’ some think of them as. As has been pointed out EV doesn’t work well with SUVs so the demand for them forces companies to consider alternatives to EVs. Not a bad thing in my mind.
    Last edited by Nosevi; 08-04-2021 at 07:13 AM.

  8. #28
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    I despise SUVs as a rule, but I agree with Mod's analysis - it's what people want, sadly. Ferrari don't need to do it, but it's basically free money to them if they do. Look what it's done for Porsche - it hasn't seemed to affect demand for the latest GT123 RS++ or whatever. And didn't Enzo say something along the lines of 'I don't care what I sell, as long as it funds the race team?'

    But yes, no-one needs an SUV. I refuse to have one, a BMW 530d on winter tyres has never let me down yet in a NE Scotland winter (we've had snow all week, for example)

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mon the fish View Post
    I despise SUVs as a rule, but I agree with Mod's analysis - it's what people want, sadly. Ferrari don't need to do it, but it's basically free money to them if they do. Look what it's done for Porsche - it hasn't seemed to affect demand for the latest GT123 RS++ or whatever. And didn't Enzo say something along the lines of 'I don't care what I sell, as long as it funds the race team?'

    But yes, no-one needs an SUV. I refuse to have one, a BMW 530d on winter tyres has never let me down yet in a NE Scotland winter (we've had snow all week, for example)
    What’s the max towing weight of a 530d, Gordon? What’s the seating capacity? Perhaps no one should have 4 kids but if you do are you going to make one of them walk? Some people do need a larger vehicle just not nearly as many as think they do.

    Mod’s analysis is that Ferrari need to make an SUV to remain viable long term. I agree with much of what he says about demand for SUVs, I just disagree with this point.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosevi View Post
    What’s the max towing weight of a 530d, Gordon? What’s the seating capacity? Perhaps no one should have 4 kids but if you do are you going to make one of them walk? Some people do need a larger vehicle just not nearly as many as think they do.
    The issue I have with many (most) SUVs is the fact they're no larger internally than a normal saloon so the 'space' argument doesn't wash. Mostly it's meaningless bulk. I had a Grand Cherokee Jeep for a while when we were building a house and I could get as much gear in my Porsche 944 at the time as I could the Jeep. I recently bought a car that we could fit loads of stuff in, from mountain bikes to sheets of plasterboard to armchairs and even a two seater sofa. It's a Nissan Cube, smaller than a Vauxhall Corsa but larger inside than my Dads massive Lexus SUV. The modern SUV = a normal size guy in a big puffer jacket.

    Mod is absolutely right though, the SUV is what 'everyone' wants now so the manufacturers will make them. It's simple supply and demand regardless of whether we agree with it or not. They are not for the likes of sports car enthusiasts although I wonder how many people here also have one?!. Mainly though, advertising tells people that's what they want so that's what people buy. Some people want to feel safe, disregarding the fact that their new armoured personnel carrier is now a weapon capable of wiping out another family in a 'lesser' vehicle. But hey, selfishness counts and who gives a hoot about anyone else these days?

    Pete, your Yeti is no doubt a great all-rounder and shouldn't fall into the same category as the pointless stuff we're talking about. In reality though it probably fits the S U & V tag much better than the Lambo Anus (an S & V) or the Jeep (a U & V) or my neighbours top-spec BMW X5 (a V).

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