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Thread: Italian Stable Mates - Picture Heavy Content...

  1. #11
    BSM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by francisn View Post
    Lovely bikes. I have to admit though I admire them I have zero interest in them and I also admit that I have little interest in most of the modern supercars. Even the latest Ferraris don't overly excite me other than that they are Ferraris.

    That's why I own a 43 year old Ferrari and am happy.

    But each to their own.
    Thanks Francis, the Italians certainly have an eye for design. I love both bikes and cars so having Italian examples of each to admire and enjoy with the wife and kids is a life long dream for me...

    I guess we're similar in some ways as I tend to have a preference for the older machines in both bikes and cars... Ducati seem to have been heading in the wrong direction for me since they become associated with the VAG group. Mass production is not really what I feel either brand is about which I guess is why I haven't moved forward with the masses from the 1199 panigale. In hindsight, the 1198 should have stayed and the tricolore moved on to a new custodian.

    This is partly why we have ended up agreeing a deal on a 360 Modena, although not a rare classic I still think they are a beautiful timeless design and have an old school appeal to me.

  2. #12
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    I know everything is relative and personally I’ve thought of swapping my 348 for a 360 a few times over the past couple of years, love them, but what do you find old school about the 360? Just curious. I’ve thought of changing to a 360 simply because it’s the first Ferrari that isn’t old school in my view - ‘clever’ suspension, power steering, comfortable, refined, reliable, dare I say almost practical ……… It has all this over an ‘old school’ Ferrari which is great fun but none of the above. I feel I’d use it more than my 348.

    Love him or hate him but when LdM took over at Ferrari there was a ‘step change’ in the cars. After this I think it’s a bit of a stretch to call them old school (although I’ve heard other 360 owners describe their car as such now and then) they’re simply too good. Look at it this way, what’s old school about a 360 or perhaps 612 compared to a car rolling off the production line of any normal manufacturer last year? And I don’t mean emissions

    Some may say ‘old school’ ended with fuel injection but that’d be saying an early 308 is ‘old school’ but a QV isn’t. Maybe ABS as the first real driver aid? Early 328 old school but later one isn’t? Absolutely nothing significant and new from 328 to 348. Ok, the chassis construction is different but as a user it doesn’t exactly jump out at you. There were these small incremental steps almost always during the life of a model then LdM walked in and took Ferrari kicking and screaming forward a couple of decades in only a few years. Can the cars from this point really be said to be ‘old school’? That’s a question rather than a statement, I just struggle to see how.
    Last edited by Nosevi; 20-10-2021 at 06:34 AM.

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    sssdu01 is offline No I'm Spartacus Committee Member
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    My definition of "Old School" relates to the technology and therefore how it drives. For me does it have, 1 Electronic Traction Control 2 Has it go so complicated that the ECU's have a "Slow Down" or Engine Management Light" that can come on to warn you of impending doom 3 Are all the electronics on a Canbus system. All of these reflect the "Modernity" of the car design and how it feels to drive (the more "Systems" it has to "Help" the driver - the less involving it is to drive = less fun).
    Some cars might have one of the above but still feel Old School , but from my experience two or all of the above = modern, so the driver isnt in full control.

    I totally get why some people enjoy driving an older car with none of the above, as the driving experience can be more satisfying.

    I am not knocking Francis older car as its well looked after, but can you imagine retrofitting some modern electronics to the car ? It would light the dash up like a Christmas tree, warning of impending doom, with warnings that everything is about to explode/fall off . Meanwhile without the modern electronics Francis remains oblivious to imminent nuclear Armageddon under the bonnet and can enjoy driving his car for many many years.

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    I think we have to acknowledge that as time moves on so does the definition of old school. A classic of time gone by would've meant pre-war, now your probably talking pre-90s. I can certainly say with authority that compared to our 2010 California, the 2000 Modena we swapped for it felt very much old school. Although it was probably at the pointy end of technology of the time, it was raw and very engaging. As suggested above, timeless in its beauty. It felt savage enough to let you know human input was really required, it wouldn't drive itself. For me, a real sweet spot in Ferrari history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyodo View Post
    I think we have to acknowledge that as time moves on so does the definition of old school. A classic of time gone by would've meant pre-war, now your probably talking pre-90s. I can certainly say with authority that compared to our 2010 California, the 2000 Modena we swapped for it felt very much old school. Although it was probably at the pointy end of technology of the time, it was raw and very engaging. As suggested above, timeless in its beauty. It felt savage enough to let you know human input was really required, it wouldn't drive itself. For me, a real sweet spot in Ferrari history.
    I agree on how good the 360 was and is, that's why I've looked at moving into one from the 348 and may still do, I was just curious as to what made it an 'old school' Ferrari to some owners. Sure, I get that it's not as modern as a Cali but having driven several older Ferraris and been in quite a few more it seems to me that the 360 is the first modern Ferrari in it's feel, usability, reliability etc. Leaving aside the 355 which was essentially a highly modified 348 (although it's a very different drive) everything before the 456 and 360 that I've been in feels totally mechanical. They can also be cantankerous, uncomfortable, and relatively unreliable from time to time. I think almost every owner of an older, what I would term 'old school', Ferrari has a bit of a love/hate relationship with their car - 'old school' is not all good

    I was just curious because I've looked at changing over the past couple of years. I've had my 348 for about 11 years now and may well look at a change next year. If I do it'd be because I think I've served my time with an 'old school' Ferrari and would want to move into something more refined and useable. To my mind the 360 ticks those boxes. I'd probably go for F1 as well, simply because I'd want a more modern experience.

    Sorry for the off topic, OP, just curiosity from someone thinking about moving into one from an older model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssdu01 View Post
    I am not knocking Francis older car as its well looked after, but can you imagine retrofitting some modern electronics to the car ? It would light the dash up like a Christmas tree, warning of impending doom, with warnings that everything is about to explode/fall off
    It's an early 308 - something probably is about to explode or fall off.

  7. #17
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    No need for any apologies here Pete, I enjoyed reading through them last few posts

    In an attempt to define my reference to 'old school'... The 360 is a very clean and simple design, it's design has a subtle nod back to the 248 on the rear haunches. Although its design evolved and was refined from many hours of wind tunnel testing, it doesn't incorporate any of the 'superior' (in nperformance terms) wings, winglets, front defusers or any Carbon exterior styling we see on the modern supercars. Its clean and unfussy in its styling to my eyes.

    In terms of gadgetry and driver aids... The 360 was cutting edge at the time. However fast forward to 2021 and there is no Mannitino, no active aero, no CCM brakes, no dual clutch transmission, no parking assist, no lane assist, no cruise control, no virtual cockpit or passenger dashboard experience etc... Although it has some technology and wizzardry, I didn't feel like the tech impaired or numbed the driver experience or engagement required to pedal it down a country B road, A road or Motorway for that matter. Although my experience is very limited at present due to the car not being home yet, I still got the feeling that I was connected with the road and the dated tech lack / of life preserving interference from driver aids would see the car spit you into a ditch with your hair on fire if you were too enthusiastic with your right foot, thought you were a driving god, didn't respect the cars capabilities and the laws of physics.

    Briefly going back to the Ducati's, the panigale is by far the superior machine of the 3. The 1189 was by far the most rewarding to ride when everything 'clicked'and you got it right. The 1198 would regularly remind you it really did want to spit you off and kill you though which I (strangely) miss. The Panigales tech will save you where the 1198 wouldn't...

    So I guess to wrap up, the 360 for me falls nicely in to the old school or modern classic territory in both looks and overall experience. It's not a classic nor is it modern, it's in that nice place between the two for me

    As a side note, the first ever time I saw one was when I was 16 and out thrashing my honda city 50 down a B Road. When it came 'screaming' past me I thought... One day Ben, one day! The following week my dad give me a poster of the 360 for my bedroom wall, totally unrelated to my experience but yes, the 360 was a poster car and dream from that point forward for me.
    Last edited by BSM; 20-10-2021 at 01:09 PM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSM View Post
    No need for any apologies here Pete, I enjoyed reading through them last few posts

    In an attempt to define my reference to 'old school'... The 360 is a very clean and simple design, it's design has a subtle nod back to the 248 on the rear haunches. Although its design evolved and was refined from many hours of wind tunnel testing, it doesn't incorporate any of the 'superior' (in nperformance terms) wings, winglets, front defusers or any Carbon exterior styling we see on the modern supercars. Its clean and unfussy in its styling to my eyes.

    In terms of gadgetry and driver aids... The 360 was cutting edge at the time. However fast forward to 2021 and there is no Mannitino, no active aero, no CCM brakes, no dual clutch transmission, no parking assist, no lane assist, no cruise control, no virtual cockpit or passenger dashboard experience etc... Although it has some technology and wizzardry, I didn't feel like the tech impaired or numbed the driver experience or engagement required to pedal it down a country B road, A road or Motorway for that matter. Although my experience is very limited at present due to the car not being home yet, I still got the feeling that I was connected with the road and the dated tech lack / of life preserving interference from driver aids would see the car spit you into a ditch with your hair on fire if you were too enthusiastic with your right foot, thought you were a driving god, didn't respect the cars capabilities and the laws of physics.

    Briefly going back to the Ducati's, the panigale is by far the superior machine of the 3. The 1189 was by far the most rewarding to ride when everything 'clicked'and you got it right. The 1198 would regularly remind you it really did want to spit you off and kill you though which I (strangely) miss. The Panigales tech will save you where the 1198 wouldn't...

    So I guess to wrap up, the 360 for me falls nicely in to the old school or modern classic territory in both looks and overall experience. It's not a classic nor is it modern, it's in that nice place between the two for me

    As a side note, the first ever time I saw one was when I was 16 and out thrashing my honda city 50 down a B Road. When it came 'screaming' past me I thought... One day Ben, one day! The following week my dad give me a poster of the 360 for my bedroom wall, totally unrelated to my experience but yes, the 360 was a poster car and dream from that point forward for me.
    All makes sense. I guess it depends whether you think of 'old school' as classic or sort of modern classic. If you own an older more mechanical feeling car you'll probably not see a car like the 360 as old school - F1 box, traction control, clever suspension....... just won't seem like it's from the same time period as the earlier cars. If you own a modern Ferrari you probably would see it as old school as it doesn't have all the really modern tech.

    I think you're right in that it falls nicely between the classic 3x8 models with all the positives in terms of engagement but all the negatives in terms of usability they have, and the more modern and easier to live with cars, and yet still retains enough of the spirit of the earlier cars to appeal to people who enjoy that. Food for thought over the winter

  9. #19
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    And you can fit golf clubs in them!

  10. #20
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    I think there is maybe a difference in how each era is viewed in relation to age too Pete. I'm only a spring chicken at 37 you see

    Your more than welcome to come and have a good nosey around ours during the winter should you wish and if it would be helpful whilst your mulling things over

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