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Thread: Removing F355 Starter Motor

  1. #11
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    Hi Ian,

    Relay will be mounted on the earth stud next to the +12V bus bar and the relay coil earthed here as well. Don’t worry unduly about spade connectors as they rarely come apart under vibration However, for added peace of mind use a next size up spade insulator over the new male spade and you’ll find it will fit snugly over the existing ‘barbed’ connector plastic housing. As this is going to be a permanent connection you can also use some heat shrink sleeving to hold the spade terminals together. For the female spade connector on the new feed use a normal insulator and you’ll find the combination will fit snugly inside the starter motor connector plastic housing for added weatherproofing. If you route and clip the new wiring carefully you can also ensure positive pressure is maintained on the connector so it can’t come adrift under vibration.

    I have used 17A cable throughout although this is total overkill for the relay coil and it’s protected by a 15A fuse. My temporary ‘jury rigged’ circuit worked just fine. Final installation will be executed when a two pin power connector arrives!
    I like red & cream!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    Hi Ian,

    Relay will be mounted on the earth stud next to the +12V bus bar and the relay coil earthed here as well. Don’t worry unduly about spade connectors as they rarely come apart under vibration However, for added peace of mind use a next size up spade insulator over the new male spade and you’ll find it will fit snugly over the existing ‘barbed’ connector plastic housing. As this is going to be a permanent connection you can also use some heat shrink sleeving to hold the spade terminals together. For the female spade connector on the new feed use a normal insulator and you’ll find the combination will fit snugly inside the starter motor connector plastic housing for added weatherproofing. If you route and clip the new wiring carefully you can also ensure positive pressure is maintained on the connector so it can’t come adrift under vibration.

    I have used 17A cable throughout although this is total overkill for the relay coil and it’s protected by a 15A fuse. My temporary ‘jury rigged’ circuit worked just fine. Final installation will be executed when a two pin power connector arrives!
    Thanks Garvin I was thinking about a similar area under the side panels.
    Perhaps itÂ’s the fittings I have but having tried a few IÂ’m still not happy with the security going into the starter solenoid. Assuming I do mine I will cut and reuse the solenoid connector then solder all the joints with shrink tube over them. IÂ’ve also found some black plastic flex tube/conduit that similar to whatÂ’s there already so that would give the additional wires more protection and make for an original look. There is a small bolt securing the bus bar assembly that looks feasible to mount a relay on, bit further for the coil earth but keeps the earth post clear. Lots of different ways to achieve the same thing. Good luck with it.

  3. #13
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    Hi Ian,

    Cutting and reusing the existing solenoid connector is a good plan save for two things - 1) there isn't a lot (well not on mine there isn't) spare lead to this connector so leaving much of an end to trim back and solder to is going to be a bit tricky; and 2) cutting back, tinning, soldering and insulating the wires in situ is going to need a skilled contortionist with exceptionally small hands unless the upper Y exhaust is removed. There is barely enough room down there for me to connect/disconnect the wire let alone perform an operation on it! Once you've cut that wire there is no going back!

    I still think you worry too much about using a standard female spade connector. If you look closely at one you will find a small detent inside it and a hole on the male spade which locates onto it when connected. By lightly squeezing the female contacts together before connection a really tight fit can be achieved and by using a standard isolator/cover it locates nicely into the starter motor connector housing. I did a trial fit when I had the starter motor on the bench and I could not pull the connector out without using a pair of pliers and the same during the trial fit on the car. For belt and braces some heat shrink sleeving can be used over the whole connector for added security and environmental protection - easily removed if and when disconnection is required.

    The power connector has now turned up so I can get on with the final wiring and testing on the bench and then the final permanent installation in the car. This might have to wait for a few weeks yet though as I'm off on hols in a few days.
    I like red & cream!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    Hi Ian,

    Cutting and reusing the existing solenoid connector is a good plan save for two things - 1) there isn't a lot (well not on mine there isn't) spare lead to this connector so leaving much of an end to trim back and solder to is going to be a bit tricky; and 2) cutting back, tinning, soldering and insulating the wires in situ is going to need a skilled contortionist with exceptionally small hands unless the upper Y exhaust is removed. There is barely enough room down there for me to connect/disconnect the wire let alone perform an operation on it! Once you've cut that wire there is no going back!

    I still think you worry too much about using a standard female spade connector. If you look closely at one you will find a small detent inside it and a hole on the male spade which locates onto it when connected. By lightly squeezing the female contacts together before connection a really tight fit can be achieved and by using a standard isolator/cover it locates nicely into the starter motor connector housing. I did a trial fit when I had the starter motor on the bench and I could not pull the connector out without using a pair of pliers and the same during the trial fit on the car. For belt and braces some heat shrink sleeving can be used over the whole connector for added security and environmental protection - easily removed if and when disconnection is required.

    The power connector has now turned up so I can get on with the final wiring and testing on the bench and then the final permanent installation in the car. This might have to wait for a few weeks yet though as I'm off on hols in a few days.
    Hi Garvin
    I did mine after the GP last night, I decided to cut and reuse the connector so no going back now.
    My spade connectors are pre insulated so difficult to tighten, for what ever reason they didnÂ’t seem to be very secure on my solenoid. Next time IÂ’ll get separate connectors and insulation covers.

    Something may or may not be of use to you but my procedure was as follows.

    To improve access to the solenoid activation cable I removed a couple of small cable ties and the P clip securing the solenoid activation cable to the top of the transmission so then I could work on the cable above the exhaust Y.
    I slid the sheath back up the cable, secured with small mole grips so I could cut few inches of wire off with the connector. When the joint was made, shrink tube fitted, the sheath came back down the cable and covered the joint when all was released.
    I did manage to fit the clip back on the solenoid fairly easily with my left hand going in under the bars from the n/s. As you have found removal is easier with long nose pliers.
    The relay and solenoid signal wires were routed in conduit, back under the Y, along under the main starter cable using its p clips and back to the bus bar area.
    Relay was bolted to the rear bus bar housing bolt and the relay body turned towards the car. Fed with a 30A fuse. Wires encased in some old automotive conduit so it looks a bit in keeping with the rest thatÂ’s there. All under the side panel though so itÂ’s not really seen anyway.

    Some years ago I did measure the volt drop through the car on the solenoid activation circuit and it was more than I was expecting. Even with a recently refurbished starter the engine seems to turn over a little faster now. Perhaps the higher voltage at the solenoid putting firmer pressure on the contacts helps.

  5. #15
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    Hi Ian,

    Good thinking about releasing the cable to bring it above the exhaust ‘Y’ - I may just change that part of the design in line with yours!

    You only have to look at the length of cabling twixt battery and starter via the ignition switch and a number of connectors to not be too surprised about a significant voltage drop . . . particularly in such an old car! There are proprietary kits like this available for ageing VW Beetles for precisely the same reason.

    How have you catered for engine removal or have you not used a relay connector and have individual spade connectors there?
    I like red & cream!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    Hi Ian,

    Good thinking about releasing the cable to bring it above the exhaust ‘Y’ - I may just change that part of the design in line with yours!

    You only have to look at the length of cabling twixt battery and starter via the ignition switch and a number of connectors to not be too surprised about a significant voltage drop . . . particularly in such an old car! There are proprietary kits like this available for ageing VW Beetles for precisely the same reason.

    How have you catered for engine removal or have you not used a relay connector and have individual spade connectors there?
    IÂ’ve used a relay connector and my loom has a permanent connection to the original engine loom so it has to go with the engine at present.
    IÂ’m hoping the preferred method of engine out is with the two main cables disconnected at the bus bar. Assuming that is the case then my relay fused feed is disconnected with the main cables, relay plug is pulled off and relay earth disconnected from the earth post. My loom then goes with the engine and the two main cables probably still in the p clips.

    If they do it differently or donÂ’t like my loom attached to the original then I could fit a connector in the original solenoid activation line but in a little more accessible spot.
    Your plug in joints would work better in that case as your loom could separate if required.

    I think I might have a chat with Carrs before they take my engine out again as to their preferred option.

  7. #17
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    Hi Ian,

    Yes, the engine comes out in the cradle with the two power feeds disconnected. I will take the power feed for this circuit from the third point so will remain undisturbed together with the relay. As for your installation the cabling to the starter motor will be clipped with the power cables so will come out with the engine once the two connectors (relay and power) are disconnected. I also plan to put a tag on the cabling to that effect. On reinstallation it will be obvious that these two ‘flying’ connectors need to be reconnected and they only go one way. If they forget, well, no damage done - the car just won’t start!
    I like red & cream!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    Hi Ian,

    Yes, the engine comes out in the cradle with the two power feeds disconnected. I will take the power feed for this circuit from the third point so will remain undisturbed together with the relay. As for your installation the cabling to the starter motor will be clipped with the power cables so will come out with the engine once the two connectors (relay and power) are disconnected. I also plan to put a tag on the cabling to that effect. On reinstallation it will be obvious that these two ‘flying’ connectors need to be reconnected and they only go one way. If they forget, well, no damage done - the car just won’t start!
    Thanks for confirming that. Tags sound a good plan although having a fuse just after the ring connector should give them a clue where it goes.

  9. #19
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    Go with the tags - most Ferrari technicians will not be used to home made modifications such as this and better safe than sorry!
    I like red & cream!

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    Go with the tags - most Ferrari technicians will not be used to home made modifications such as this and better safe than sorry!
    You’re probably right and at their hourly rate it’s best not to hold them up too much

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