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Thread: 348 GTC - How many still around & value?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris_gilmartin View Post
    Exactly, I totally agree. I do think that there was some weight saving, because it says so in the owners manual and Ferrari would not tell fibs, right? It specifically says the doors and front & rear bumpers are 'in Kevlar and carbon to achieve a remarkable weight reduction'. Of course that could be a remarkably small weight deduction. Plus if the bumpers have ever been replaced who's to know really? My doors sound pleasingly lightweight. I expect the seats are probably a fair bit lighter...but never taken them out to weigh them. I've been wondering whether it's worth putting mine in for the Classiche programme at some point, if I did then presumably they would give me chapter & verse. No idea what it costs or entails though - has anyone done this for a 348?
    Regarding Classiche. Yes there has been some 348s through the scheme. Cant recall where I saw the details/info. though!

    You might want to talk to your local main dealer about the Premium Scheme; which I understand is a route to Classiche. I've had a quick brief on it, but can find out more next week when I pop in to see mine being serviced if you like?


    "fibreglass shatters into shards which would do serious damage to the occupant in a side impact." , not necessarily true and its still used in helmet construction for example; but with other materials. Besides, carbon fibre is far better at shattering than any of the other fibres; except maybe some exotics.

    The cloth that you see used on the standard bumpers is referred to a "chopped strand mat". Basically fibres laid randomly. Its a cheap application method for where there are no real complicated structural load paths to consider. And more importantly probably, requires little skill to apply.

    For the applications on the 348 the use of Kevlar on the bumpers and doors is interesting, as whilst this does save weight, there are other areas you could also save weight, but they didn't bother with; so was it just done on weight saving grounds alone or were there other reasons? Certainly good marketing, especially back then when it was an "exotic" material.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A348W View Post
    "fibreglass shatters into shards which would do serious damage to the occupant in a side impact." , not necessarily true and its still used in helmet construction for example; but with other materials. Besides, carbon fibre is far better at shattering than any of the other fibres; except maybe some exotics.

    The cloth that you see used on the standard bumpers is referred to a "chopped strand mat". Basically fibres laid randomly. Its a cheap application method for where there are no real complicated structural load paths to consider. And more importantly probably, requires little skill to apply.

    For the applications on the 348 the use of Kevlar on the bumpers and doors is interesting, as whilst this does save weight, there are other areas you could also save weight, but they didn't bother with; so was it just done on weight saving grounds alone or were there other reasons? Certainly good marketing, especially back then when it was an "exotic" material.
    I didn't know carbon fibre was worse than fibreglass, only that Kevlar is not as bad, that's one of the reasons we (the military) use Kevlar in helmet construction I think - it doesn't shatter when a bullet hits it.

    I'm not an engineer but is what I wrote about the weave vs chopped mat a fair point ie Chris will be able to tell straight away because you simply don't get 'chopped strand mat carbon Kevlar'. carbon Kevlar is always in a weave in order to be useful.

    Your last point is kind of my point - if you were going to add Carbon Kevlar panels to a standard car to lighten it, it makes little sense to choose those panels on the standard car which are already lightweight. It makes even less sense to pick the panels which are low down. Given the tensile strength of Carbon Kevlar is so high it'd make much more sense to swap out metal panels on the original car for Carbon Kevlar as that would both save weight and if the panels were higher it would also lower the C of G. If, however, you just wanted to throw out there that some panels were Carbon Kevlar then by picking non-magnetic panels it's far easier to casually make the claim...……. but perhaps I'm just a cynic.

    Anyway, as I say, Chris should be able to tell at a glance.
    Last edited by Nosevi; 07-02-2020 at 08:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A348W View Post
    You might want to talk to your local main dealer about the Premium Scheme; which I understand is a route to Classiche. I've had a quick brief on it, but can find out more next week when I pop in to see mine being serviced if you like?
    Sure, if no trouble, thanks. But don't worry if not I can ask around myself if easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by A348W View Post
    For the applications on the 348 the use of Kevlar on the bumpers and doors is interesting, as whilst this does save weight, there are other areas you could also save weight, but they didn't bother with; so was it just done on weight saving grounds alone or were there other reasons? Certainly good marketing, especially back then when it was an "exotic" material.
    My car is from 1994 and the seats, door sills, and ECU covers are carbon/kevlar in a lovely/ugly mixed green/brown colour, depending on your point of view. The weave & finish is similar to what you can see in an F40...personally, I love it...I know it's largely cosmetic/marketing but nevertheless, why not? As you say it was very exotic at the time.

    By the way, I meant to say earlier 'bog standard' in this context is 'fabulous' in any other....it's a Ferrari, I don't think I've even seen a single one that I haven't appreciated. When I was growing up this was the impossible dream, to quote a certain Honda advert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosevi View Post
    Chris should be able to tell at a glance.
    Unfortunately my car is elsewhere so I can't right now, I'll investigate when back in action!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris_gilmartin View Post
    By the way, I meant to say earlier 'bog standard' in this context is 'fabulous' in any other....it's a Ferrari, I don't think I've even seen a single one that I haven't appreciated. When I was growing up this was the impossible dream, to quote a certain Honda advert
    Fully agree with this. Cars like the GTC are a bit special but they’re all great cars in their own right and all a small piece of Ferrari history.

    Quote Originally Posted by chris_gilmartin View Post
    Unfortunately my car is elsewhere so I can't right now, I'll investigate when back in action!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosevi View Post
    I didn't know carbon fibre was worse than fibreglass, only that Kevlar is not as bad, that's one of the reasons we (the military) use Kevlar in helmet construction I think - it doesn't shatter when a bullet hits it.

    I'm not an engineer but is what I wrote about the weave vs chopped mat a fair point ie Chris will be able to tell straight away because you simply don't get 'chopped strand mat carbon Kevlar'. carbon Kevlar is always in a weave in order to be useful.

    Your last point is kind of my point - if you were going to add Carbon Kevlar panels to a standard car to lighten it, it makes little sense to choose those panels on the standard car which are already lightweight. It makes even less sense to pick the panels which are low down. Given the tensile strength of Carbon Kevlar is so high it'd make much more sense to swap out metal panels on the original car for Carbon Kevlar as that would both save weight and if the panels were higher it would also lower the C of G. If, however, you just wanted to throw out there that some panels were Carbon Kevlar then by picking non-magnetic panels it's far easier to casually make the claim...……. but perhaps I'm just a cynic.

    Anyway, as I say, Chris should be able to tell at a glance.
    I use to know a bit about it, but forgotten more than I knew! This was some 10 years ago at least and some of the stuff they had then was mind blowing. Particularly cool was the self healing composites; from vague memory each fibre was in fact a nano tube, which contained resin, so when the fibre was broken ie laminate damaged, the resin in the "tube" would leak out and in effect self heal. Obviously not as strong as original but still. I suspect that has all moved on to an unrecognisable level now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris_gilmartin View Post
    Number 11 up for auction if anyone is keen!

    https://silverstoneauctions.com/even...t-competizione
    Sold for £130,000 apparently.

    Let's hope that the new owner drives it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris_gilmartin View Post
    Sold for £130,000 apparently.

    Let's hope that the new owner drives it!
    You used o see the odd one pop in in the Pirelli Hill climb but I think those days are possibly over given the prices now.

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    https://www.classic-trader.com/fr/vo...sa/1995/198326

    New ad for what is apparently one of the Michelotto versions (announced as 1 of 11). There is little information online about these special models and when doing a google search, all cars seems widely different? How can true Michelotto be identified? Is there a register?

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