360 or 430? The search goes on........

[stuarts]

As per my previous thread where I nearly bought a lemon of a 360: https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?61416-Buying-a-360-Manual

I'm still looking for a car but having spoken to a few very knowledgeable people, I'm now happy to consider a F1 and also considering a 430.

On the 430's, here's the ones I'm interested in - please chip in with comments (or pm me if you so wish due to sensitivity issues)

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...cation=at_cars&model=F430&make=Ferrari&page=1

https://www.tfcgb.com/used-cars/10242631-ferrari-f430-coupe-f1/#cycle-detail-videos

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10536452

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...arly New&onesearchad=Used&make=Ferrari&page=2

 

[Modificato]

My two cents - note this post reflects personal tastes as well as factual info.

Value is always in the eye of the beholder so it is inevitable I will reflect some of my ideas of value of the F430 and its many options into the discussion.

General: word of warning personally having had one cream leather Ferrari in my multi-car Ferrari experience I would never ever have another.

I generally wear jeans and they always bleed into cream leather, look awful and take hours to clean, treat, avoid etc.

I think it is a very Italian ice cream parlour look to have cream seats - so for me the 'classic' crema / Rosso combo seems to be a dealer rather than customer led tick most of the time but forewarned is forearmed.


Car1: Early pre-mid-life-upgrade car with very basic spec except for some interior carbon and the must have CCM's. In period the F430 development standard car was downgraded at launch from CCM's to the old 360 spec brake package in order to lower the MSRP. they are not up to the job if you intend to drive it to its performance level. Not always a popular opinion but if you are to do any European trips, track days, sporting driving you will soon find their shortcomings. Pirelli's whilst fresh are actually a very dated tyre tech option so again more modern design of tyres - the later homologated Michelins would be better. I would factor that into any offer.

Car2: 07 60th Anniversary car worth checking the VIN as it could well be a a post mid-life-update car - lots of upgrades inc. ECU's TCU and mechanical parts. Apart from the scud wheels and the basic interior carbon pack a low spec car

Car3: As is typical with Romans a high spec car. Challenge Grill, CCM's, Challenge Wheels, Titanium parts and Carbon trim. MY08 car so definitely post mid life update - pick of the bunch by long way IMO. In period the MSRP of this car would have been much higher than any of the others.

Car4: Early car very basic spec apart from a splash of interior carbon


As is usual some ads are a bit hyped about spec and unless you really know the massive difference the options made in period the values look similar
Easy choice car 3 is in a different league.

 

[stuarts]

Thanks for your input.

I agree with you on the crema interior, not my favourite for those reasons!

I've called about all the cars, really like the first one, owner is very knowledgeable, has had all the ball joints & tie rods replaced with Hill Engineering items, every invoice for work with the car. ECU's sorted when the manifolds changed. Also agree on the tyres - I always change my cars to PS4S's as a matter of policy - the only tyres to have!
I do like this car.

Agree about three though, great car - can I live with the crema interior?

As an aside, Dick Lovett have a red/crema 25k manual 360 that came in today, which I'm looking at tomorrow morning.

Key is just getting an honest, straight, reliable (as possible) car for Euro trips this summer, including Classic LM and a trip to Modena.

Decisions, decisions................

 

[Nosevi]

General: word of warning personally having had one cream leather Ferrari in my multi-car Ferrari experience I would never ever have another.

I generally wear jeans and they always bleed into cream leather, look awful and take hours to clean, treat, avoid etc.

I think it is a very Italian ice cream parlour look to have cream seats - so for me the 'classic' crema / Rosso combo seems to be a dealer rather than customer led tick most of the time but forewarned is forearmed.

While I agree with the overall sentiment about crema seats I have to disagree with the notion that crema/Rosso is a dealer preference and not a buyer one. Dealers like one thing - cars that sell, and crema/Rosso sells, really is that simple. I completely agree it can be a pita though and understand you don't want to bother with it. It can be kept looking perfect but it does take effort to do it.

 

[Nosevi]

Decisions, decisions................

But a nice problem to have :thumbsup:

 

[A348W]

Thanks for your input.

I agree with you on the crema interior, not my favourite for those reasons!

I've called about all the cars, really like the first one, owner is very knowledgeable, has had all the ball joints & tie rods replaced with Hill Engineering items, every invoice for work with the car. ECU's sorted when the manifolds changed. Also agree on the tyres - I always change my cars to PS4S's as a matter of policy - the only tyres to have!
I do like this car.

Agree about three though, great car - can I live with the crema interior?

As an aside, Dick Lovett have a red/crema 25k manual 360 that came in today, which I'm looking at tomorrow morning.

Key is just getting an honest, straight, reliable (as possible) car for Euro trips this summer, including Classic LM and a trip to Modena.

Decisions, decisions................

If your in DL they have a blue 430 coming apparently. I made the mistake of telling Adrian I would be looking for one next year possibly; but you know what they are like! It was no good for me as Ill be after a spider.

As you are in the area; you might as well pop into fish brother lexus as they have a blue 430 coupe. if nothing another car to add to your knowledge.

 

[stuarts]

Thanks, I'll mention the blue F430 to Harry at DL.
and yes, I'm already booked to look at the blue F430 at Fish, we'll see about that one.

 

[Modificato]

Thanks for your input.

I agree with you on the crema interior, not my favourite for those reasons!

I've called about all the cars, really like the first one, owner is very knowledgeable, has had all the ball joints & tie rods replaced with Hill Engineering items, every invoice for work with the car. ECU's sorted when the manifolds changed. Also agree on the tyres - I always change my cars to PS4S's as a matter of policy - the only tyres to have!
I do like this car.

Agree about three though, great car - can I live with the crema interior?

As an aside, Dick Lovett have a red/crema 25k manual 360 that came in today, which I'm looking at tomorrow morning.

Key is just getting an honest, straight, reliable (as possible) car for Euro trips this summer, including Classic LM and a trip to Modena.

Decisions, decisions................

Note the Michelin's for the F430 are actually a specifically homologated to type tyre. The 'generic' PS4S is not even close to the homologated version. These have a K1 K2 or K3 fitment suffix so shop carefully.

 

[Modificato]

While I agree with the overall sentiment about crema seats I have to disagree with the notion that crema/Rosso is a dealer preference and not a buyer one. Dealers like one thing - cars that sell, and crema/Rosso sells, really is that simple. I completely agree it can be a pita though and understand you don't want to bother with it. It can be kept looking perfect but it does take effort to do it.

I'll be specific because I know the dealer script.


When you enter the marque one of the first conversations sales people are trained to have is "how do you think you will use the car?"

"Special occasions, owners clubs, epic trips, track days, low mileages, investment, cars and coffee etc.?

It is invariably the 'classic' first time Ferrari choice for a buyer who is buying automotive art rather than an enthusiastic user device.

Many first Ferrari's are thus the 'classic combo'.

 

[cgt]

And Rosso/Crema was very much a UK preference going back to the 70s and 80's. I saw very few in that combo in Europe, Nero tended to be the favoured interior on Rosso cars there.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

 

[Nosevi]

I'll be specific because I know the dealer script.


When you enter the marque one of the first conversations sales people are trained to have is "how do you think you will use the car?"

"Special occasions, owners clubs, epic trips, track days, low mileages, investment, cars and coffee etc.?

It is invariably the 'classic' first time Ferrari choice for a buyer who is buying automotive art rather than an enthusiastic user device.

Many first Ferrari's are thus the 'classic combo'.

We all know the dealer script.

I know you're ever so slightly disdainful of anyone who doesn't use their car as you believe they should, Mod, your posts repeatedly lean in this direction (if you don't think they do, ask around......) , but the reality is owners choose to use their cars in all sorts of ways from those who race them properly to those who put them in a glass case and look at them, and that's just fine as far as I'm concerned. Your average Ferrari is used pretty sparingly compared to most cars and so your average Ferrari falls somewhere towards the automotive art end of the scale, albeit with some used quite a bit more.

So sure, the 'classic' crema/Rosso is often the choice of the first time buyer looking for their dream car but then that translates to it being a buyer preference. Unless of course you are suggesting that more people buy their second Ferrari than their first, which is slightly difficult to argue mathematically. And then there are plenty of repeat buyers who like the combo too.

So in essence it's not as you said a dealer led tick, dealers like the combo because customers buy it, as I said it's as simple as that. Even if you don't personally like it, it's a pretty safe bet when it comes to resale time and it always has been.

It's much like modifying our cars to make them better than they originally were and we all know the low mileage 'fetish' within the Ferrari market is a bit bonkers - as enthusiasts we like good modifications and like to drive our cars. But no matter how many times we make statements to the contrary the market doesn't agree with us. The market likes stock, low mileage cars. And it loves Crema/Rosso as a combo.

And Rosso/Crema was very much a UK preference going back to the 70s and 80's. I saw very few in that combo in Europe, Nero tended to be the favoured interior on Rosso cars there.

Absolutely, and in the US there seem to be more Rosso/Tan than here as well. But it is the UK market we are talking about here, especially if we are looking primarily at RHD cars.

 

[Kyodo]

I'll admit to preferring the rosso/nero combination for the mid-engined V8s but I really wanted rosso/crema for our California. I'm glad I did, it looks stonking and as I tend to wear shorts and rags more often than new blue jeans, the interior is looking pretty damn good!

Personal choice of course and valid points raised all round.

 

[Nosevi]

I'll admit to preferring the rosso/nero combination for the mid-engined V8s but I really wanted rosso/crema for our California. I'm glad I did, it looks stonking and as I tend to wear shorts and rags more often than new blue jeans, the interior is looking pretty damn good!

Personal choice of course and valid points raised all round.

Absolutely. I personally prefer a tan interior with many exterior colours, I just acknowledge the fact that I'm in the minority and more people like the crema.

Totally agree re your Cali - just looks 'right' in the combo you went for :thumbsup:

 

[cgt]

Crema seemed uniquely desirable in the UK only. Many rosso corsa cars in the US were either tan or cuoio, distinctly different to crema. I don't think I even saw a crema interior outside of RHD UK cars for many years

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

 

[stuarts]

So,
It feels like I've gone full circle and struck a pretty good deal on this car.
Four owner, 25k miles, full main dealer history - last ten years at Dick Lovett.
I originally went down last week to look at the CS they have for sale, spent quite a bit of time with Harry there, who's really into older cars too, and he mentioned that they'd be getting this in, did I want to have first look.
Car drove like a really nice low mileage car (which it is).
Having now looked at quite a few cars, the originality of this car really attracted me (original factory PPF around vents etc). Serviced nearly every year.
They are fixing a couple of bushes and ball joints, doing a service, new MOT and taking out all the switch-gear and sending it off for de-stickying - and it's having a full machine polish and detailing. Oh and I've asked them to change the tyres for Michelin PS4S's

I'll be getting a rear Challenge grill (and possibly a Tubi?) and will live with a crema interior - it's not bad really

 

[Nosevi]

Congrats, looks fantastic. :thumbsup:

Really like those wheels on the 360 as well.

 

[Nosevi]

Crema seemed uniquely desirable in the UK only. Many rosso corsa cars in the US were either tan or cuoio, distinctly different to crema. I don't think I even saw a crema interior outside of RHD UK cars for many years

There are some and quite a few back in the days of the 308, Mondial and Testarossa, just not nearly as many as in the Uk.

 

[A348W]

nice one ; glad you found what you are after.

 

[WF36]

Congratulations - Just swapped to PS4S on my 430 - Totally transformed the car, compared to the 11 year old rubber that was previously on it!

 

[tom]

Looks great! Well done.

I’ve got some PS4S coming for the CS this week. Haven’t driven it since November but the 8yr old P Zero Corsas we’re not exactly confidence expiring…