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shoemaka
- Thread starter ted 191
- Start date
People who have a go at him really are forgetting his achievements. It's an absolute joke to say he was either lucky or wasn't fast. His record is unsurpassed and will be for a long time to come. Honestly, listening to some of the comments today by brundle and coulthard, they were very insulting! Hes lost some pace, of that there is no doubt, but he has also had some impressive races. He's in his 40's and was out for over 3 years. Just let him get on with it and stop slagging the guy off!
sarahschummi
New member
If this was facebook, i'd click 'LIKE' :thumbsup:
:grin:
Murph7355
New member
If it were anyone else driving like that today, they'd be lucky to be racing in the next few GPs. There seemed to be little awareness of other cars around him. Taking his previous seasons as examples, had he been quick you might have been inclined to forgive those things. But he wasn't, in a car that evidently had much more to give.
His past glories are just that. In the past. He was an incredibly talented driver, of that there is no doubt. Though it doesn't pay to wear too rosy a pair of goggles when looking at the statistics necessarily
As for the "insulting" comments from MB/DC...how many of them were actually off the mark (rosy spectacles off)?
His past glories are just that. In the past. He was an incredibly talented driver, of that there is no doubt. Though it doesn't pay to wear too rosy a pair of goggles when looking at the statistics necessarily
As for the "insulting" comments from MB/DC...how many of them were actually off the mark (rosy spectacles off)?
Simes
Member
If it were anyone else driving like that today, they'd be lucky to be racing in the next few GPs. There seemed to be little awareness of other cars around him. Taking his previous seasons as examples, had he been quick you might have been inclined to forgive those things. But he wasn't, in a car that evidently had much more to give.
His past glories are just that. In the past. He was an incredibly talented driver, of that there is no doubt. Though it doesn't pay to wear too rosy a pair of goggles when looking at the statistics necessarily
As for the "insulting" comments from MB/DC...how many of them were actually off the mark (rosy spectacles off)?
^ 'Like' :thumbsup:
cgt
Active member
I find DC to be increasingly annoying. Whenever a Red Bull is involved bias is really evident. He was team-mate to Heidfeld yet can't even get the guy's name right. And he has obviously a big chip on his shoulder re. Schumacher as he rarely passes up the chance to have a dig. Somehow I don't think it's unrelated to the fact he was beaten by MS on many occasions. Brundle is more balanced but in his case too his top-line career was effectively ended when he was destroyed by a young Schumacher at Benetton. Eddie Jordan lost MS because he was outsmarted by Tom Walkinshaw who poached him for Benetton.
I'm not saying those guys are entirely wrong but all three have a grudge they have been carrying for many years and their comments dont always seem objective.
For all the people saying he should retire again maybe it's worth looking deeper at his reasons and motivation for being in F1. He doesn't need money, probably being the first driver close to the billion dollar mark. Glory and achievements, I doubt anyone can statistically do what he did. Vettel or Hamilton may get close but everyone thought Alonso would and he seems stalled at two championships.
MS has said many times he is in F1 again to build the team up (probably not for his future benefit as he's unlikely to be racing at 45) and because he loves racing. That is undeniable. It takes balls to race against guys 20 years younger. There is no pressure on him to earn money or to add to his record so let the guy race if that is what he loves. I suspect if Mika Hakkinen, Montoya, Damon Hill or Jacques Villeneuve came back into F1 they would not get half the criticism that MS does.
Of course I'm sure he would want to add to his record but before today he always seemed pretty happy to be back and just to be there. If any of us do something we love and then leave it for a few years and then get the chance to do it again then why should we begrudge him that. He's not driving like the old MS but this guy is 20 years older and has different motivations.
I still think on the right day in the right circumstances the old magic is there. The cheeky pass on Alonso at Monaco last year, the tussle with Button in Spain last year and his increasingly strong form toward the end of last season. As noted above, no amount of luck wins seven championships. Alonso has two (could have been four), Hamilton has one (could have been four too) so there has to be more than luck involved, it's hard to win championships even with the right tools.
For all his issues at the moment, he has been consistently the best starter over the past season. On average he always makes up 4 places and if he qualified nearer the front that ability would really pay dividends.
A lot of his problems come from poor qualifying which puts him way back in the pack. His Q3 lap yesterday was a whole second slower than he went in morning practice. He shows pace in testing and practice sessions but it always seems to go wrong in qualifying and that has set the tone for so many of his poor weekends.
I'm not saying those guys are entirely wrong but all three have a grudge they have been carrying for many years and their comments dont always seem objective.
For all the people saying he should retire again maybe it's worth looking deeper at his reasons and motivation for being in F1. He doesn't need money, probably being the first driver close to the billion dollar mark. Glory and achievements, I doubt anyone can statistically do what he did. Vettel or Hamilton may get close but everyone thought Alonso would and he seems stalled at two championships.
MS has said many times he is in F1 again to build the team up (probably not for his future benefit as he's unlikely to be racing at 45) and because he loves racing. That is undeniable. It takes balls to race against guys 20 years younger. There is no pressure on him to earn money or to add to his record so let the guy race if that is what he loves. I suspect if Mika Hakkinen, Montoya, Damon Hill or Jacques Villeneuve came back into F1 they would not get half the criticism that MS does.
Of course I'm sure he would want to add to his record but before today he always seemed pretty happy to be back and just to be there. If any of us do something we love and then leave it for a few years and then get the chance to do it again then why should we begrudge him that. He's not driving like the old MS but this guy is 20 years older and has different motivations.
I still think on the right day in the right circumstances the old magic is there. The cheeky pass on Alonso at Monaco last year, the tussle with Button in Spain last year and his increasingly strong form toward the end of last season. As noted above, no amount of luck wins seven championships. Alonso has two (could have been four), Hamilton has one (could have been four too) so there has to be more than luck involved, it's hard to win championships even with the right tools.
For all his issues at the moment, he has been consistently the best starter over the past season. On average he always makes up 4 places and if he qualified nearer the front that ability would really pay dividends.
A lot of his problems come from poor qualifying which puts him way back in the pack. His Q3 lap yesterday was a whole second slower than he went in morning practice. He shows pace in testing and practice sessions but it always seems to go wrong in qualifying and that has set the tone for so many of his poor weekends.
Simes
Member
Funny that, exactly what I was thinking...Or even better, banger racing! :thumbsup:
Mallard
New member
got a lot of respect for MS coming back when depth of driver talent was so much better than for years.:thumbsup: but it wasn't just during the race where he wasn't aware of other cars on the track. At least twice during practice he nearly caused accidents to cars passing him, totally unaware.
He really should consider going to DTM. He has shown some glimpses of the old MS, good and (mostly)bad but he really has been outshone by Rosberg who knows he is becoming the No1 in the team.
Respect to MS for trying to comeback but if he doesn't improve soon he should bow out rather than be let go by the team (and his old friends).
He really should consider going to DTM. He has shown some glimpses of the old MS, good and (mostly)bad but he really has been outshone by Rosberg who knows he is becoming the No1 in the team.
Respect to MS for trying to comeback but if he doesn't improve soon he should bow out rather than be let go by the team (and his old friends).
I think a bit of it is my fault .....with all my support I've jinxed him :grin:
As said earlier, he seems to have a lot more issues in qualifying; though if as has been mooted, next year's in season testing could make a huge difference if allowed.
I wouldn't take much notice of Coulthard, Brundle,and Jordan - I think the BBC commentary team is absolutely brilliant - but let's not forget that in terms of F1 history, all 3 will be remembered as Class A failures :grin:
As said earlier, he seems to have a lot more issues in qualifying; though if as has been mooted, next year's in season testing could make a huge difference if allowed.
I wouldn't take much notice of Coulthard, Brundle,and Jordan - I think the BBC commentary team is absolutely brilliant - but let's not forget that in terms of F1 history, all 3 will be remembered as Class A failures :grin:
Like:thumbsup:
cgt
Active member
Things are also very dependant on the quality of person he is racing against. At the sharp end there is generally clean racing without contact. Of course those guys have a lot more to lose.
In the midfield, Schumacher keeps getting caught up with the Alguersaris and Buemis who dont quite have that instinct to avoid contact. MS held his hands up yesterday over the Petrov incident but I dont think VP was entirely blameless as the way he steamed in he would not have made that corner. Watch it again.
The flipside is three weeks ago in China where MS and Kobayashi were dicing pretty much the whole race, no contact and great racing, repeatedly changing places. I seem to recall the same commentators putting the boot in yesterday are the same ones three weeks ago who were saying MS is back on form.. :hmmm: I guess they have short memories, or could it be sensationalism?
In the midfield, Schumacher keeps getting caught up with the Alguersaris and Buemis who dont quite have that instinct to avoid contact. MS held his hands up yesterday over the Petrov incident but I dont think VP was entirely blameless as the way he steamed in he would not have made that corner. Watch it again.
The flipside is three weeks ago in China where MS and Kobayashi were dicing pretty much the whole race, no contact and great racing, repeatedly changing places. I seem to recall the same commentators putting the boot in yesterday are the same ones three weeks ago who were saying MS is back on form.. :hmmm: I guess they have short memories, or could it be sensationalism?
Murph7355
New member
On what basis?
In the overall list of "fails" in F1, I'd say these guys are quite some way from the top.
Coulthard's 19th in the all time number of wins list at present (out of 72 "positions"). All time podiums and points he's well up the order. Arguably he should have done more at times with the kit he had. But a failure?
Jordan's team managed 4 wins putting him something like 19th of all constructors thus far too. A team with a fraction of the budget of many others (Toyota? Jaguar? BMW?) and who had drivers poached.
Brundle will probably be in the 20s position wise of all time points scorers and podium finishers. And we shouldn't forget that he was widely regarded as a match for one Ayrton Senna when in equal kit (rumour has it Senna blocked him moving to the same team).
They have an opinion on the current drivers. I'd suggest they're far more qualified than any of us to provide one
(And haven't noticed them being specifically anti-Schumacher myself)
Mallard
New member
At the end of the day you can only compare him against his teammate.. until now there has been no comparison. MS has not been driving well and he does not command the fear of the new drivers that he once did. MS must seem like an old man to these young 23/4/5 year olds. He hasn't handled running in the pack very well and doesn't seem to be aware what is going on around him.
Shame he's not enjoying racing at the moment. I also recall Bernie making a point about outing some of the older drivers with younger ones in one interview.
I think that the commentators have respect for MS and they have always commented on drivers involved in silly incidents, it just happens to be MS at the moment. Not always his fault but with his experience you would have hoped he would assess the situation and make a good decision instead of a visit to the pits.
Shame he's not enjoying racing at the moment. I also recall Bernie making a point about outing some of the older drivers with younger ones in one interview.
I think that the commentators have respect for MS and they have always commented on drivers involved in silly incidents, it just happens to be MS at the moment. Not always his fault but with his experience you would have hoped he would assess the situation and make a good decision instead of a visit to the pits.
candellara
New member
Schumi will decide enough is enough this year IMO
Shame. but if you re-run some of the great victories / drives - The greatest F1 driver, Ferrari ever had.
On what basis?
In the overall list of "fails" in F1, I'd say these guys are quite some way from the top.
Coulthard's 19th in the all time number of wins list at present (out of 72 "positions"). All time podiums and points he's well up the order. Arguably he should have done more at times with the kit he had. But a failure?
Jordan's team managed 4 wins putting him something like 19th of all constructors thus far too. A team with a fraction of the budget of many others (Toyota? Jaguar? BMW?) and who had drivers poached.
Brundle will probably be in the 20s position wise of all time points scorers and podium finishers. And we shouldn't forget that he was widely regarded as a match for one Ayrton Senna when in equal kit (rumour has it Senna blocked him moving to the same team).
They have an opinion on the current drivers. I'd suggest they're far more qualified than any of us to provide one
(And haven't noticed them being specifically anti-Schumacher myself)
Taken from Martin Brundle's Wikipedia page:
He holds the dubious distinction of having the longest Formula One career (158 Grand Prix starts) without a race victory, a pole position or a fastest lap.
I'm sure Senna was terrified :grin:
:grin:
From what we've seen so far, you are spot on :cry3: