Buying a 360 Manual

[Beda]

For the potential purchaser though and regardless of the story of the car, at least the work being carried out at AV Engineering will have been carried out well. For the 360 model in particular you'll struggle to find a more capable workshop. I would absolutely take the opportunity to have a chat with Aldous.

I probably wasn’t too clear but the proof of significant work by AV was a massive positive to me. The history after (engine swap / rebuild) put me off entirely though!

AV have been incredibly generous with their time to me as I’ve been looking and learning, including letting me poke around their workshop for an afternoon last summer. Hugely grateful to them.

The whole story makes no sense to me, if you loved the engine in the Modena enough and can live with big bills, why not do the same work to the spider rather than devaluing both with an engine swap. My experience to date has been that if something smells odd, you should move on. That includes being told by a car dealer who is at the centre of a debate on pistonheads about a ropey Ferrari FF, that I’d misunderstood when his sales agent told me I couldn’t get the car inspected. I hadn’t misunderstood, one of them wasn’t telling the truth and I walked away. Ferrari buying seems rife with peril!!

 

[Mark Blanchard]

£90k for that car is ludicrous. A none matching numbers car is always going to be worth less. And just because a car has had a fortune spent on it doesn't mean it's worth a fortune.

Good luck with your search for a 360. There are some genuine cars out there.

 

[stuarts]

Thanks all for your comments and thoughts.

I've done a lot of due diligence over the car, spoken to all the parties and people who have worked on the car.
I've spent a lot of time going over it, checking the paperwork and mileage (on both engines).
It really is a very tidy car, it's the exact spec/colour combo I wanted, and it drives really tight - better than any other I've been in, and I can see no need for any expenditure (other than routine items), I've negotiated a good price, with a good, no quibble warranty for one year.
I aim to really use it, put a fair few miles on it and it'll be a keeper for a good while.

Most importantly it makes me and my partner smile, we love it, it makes us feel good and that's all that matters!

 

[Nosevi]

Most importantly it makes me and my partner smile, we love it, it makes us feel good and that's all that matters!

It is indeed. Enjoy it :thumbsup:

 

[Beda]

Thanks all for your comments and thoughts.

I've done a lot of due diligence over the car, spoken to all the parties and people who have worked on the car.
I've spent a lot of time going over it, checking the paperwork and mileage (on both engines).
It really is a very tidy car, it's the exact spec/colour combo I wanted, and it drives really tight - better than any other I've been in, and I can see no need for any expenditure (other than routine items), I've negotiated a good price, with a good, no quibble warranty for one year.
I aim to really use it, put a fair few miles on it and it'll be a keeper for a good while.

Most importantly it makes me and my partner smile, we love it, it makes us feel good and that's all that matters!

For all my skepticism, that’s great news! Enjoy it in good health and post up some pics of it

 

[stuarts]

Well the search for a 360 continues, as some other issues with the car cropped up and I'm walking away from it.

It's a great testament to the Ferrari network, a specialist dealer who I've previously bought a car from and I trust implicitly, knew of the car and its previous life and got in touch with some more information that was unknown.

So the search for a 360 Modena continues!!!!!!

 

[A348W]

Whilst a lovely spec, (I'm very partial to blue :grin I think you dodged a very very expensive bullet there!

Nothing on the car was adding up unfortunately, and the Ferrari market is extremely particular with regards to history, bordering on the ana*. Any car that has any type of discrepency/ oddity in its history will hugely affect its £ and saleability.

Good luck in your search, there is always another, you just have to be patienct,...never easy when toys are involved.

(Can you elaborate on the other aspects that came to light, to save any other unsuspecting buyer?)

 

[MWStewart]

It's disappointing for you but I have a feeling this worked out for the best.

 

[Nosevi]

Well the search for a 360 continues, as some other issues with the car cropped up and I'm walking away from it.

It's a great testament to the Ferrari network, a specialist dealer who I've previously bought a car from and I trust implicitly, knew of the car and its previous life and got in touch with some more information that was unknown.

So the search for a 360 Modena continues!!!!!!

It may have been unknown but for some of us who have been kicking round these parts for a while it wasn't unguessed or indeed unexpected, that's why you were getting so much scepticism from some of us over what looked to be a lovely motor. It's a shame but probably for the best.

Adrian's point is also hugely valid - the market can be extremely 'picky' and had you bought the car THEN found out the whole history you'd be sitting on a car you simply couldn't sell, or at least were going to be looking at a huge loss when you did.

Loads of great cars out there, finding the right one just takes time. Best for luck with the search. One avenue you could use which tends to filter out the cars like the one in this thread is to speak to a couple of the dealers to see if they know of any solid examples out there. Guys like Tim Walker at Walkersport are a great option as they tend to hear about good cars before the rest of the masses like myself ever get to see them.

 

[Kyodo]

It may have been unknown but for some of us who have been kicking round these parts for a while it wasn't unguessed or indeed unexpected, that's why you were getting so much scepticism from some of us over what looked to be a lovely motor. It's a shame but probably for the best.

This ^

 

[Pangea]

Well the search for a 360 continues, as some other issues with the car cropped up and I'm walking away from it.

It's a great testament to the Ferrari network, a specialist dealer who I've previously bought a car from and I trust implicitly, knew of the car and its previous life and got in touch with some more information that was unknown.

So the search for a 360 Modena continues!!!!!!

Smart move...

 

[Modificato]

If this was a perfect car with full history and no unusual engine swap I'd still say £90k is still way too high. I have no idea of the dealer and they may well be first class but even if this car had the original engine it would be £75k-£80k at the most IMHO. £90k is well into F430 money.
I saw a 458 for for just over £100k a few weeks back.

Trouble with the last line is that what gives people distorted views of the market - £100k 458

History?
Low Spec?
Similar stories?
LHD?
Suspect mileage?

In order to understand the true market for any Ferrari - remove the special editions, they are a different market - Now look at all the cars of a particular tipo - take out the top 10% and bottom 10% pricewise out of the equation.

If you are not considering LHD take them out and then normalise the circa 80% left around a spec and mileage scale.

You will then find the true market value

 

[Modificato]

I probably wasn’t too clear but the proof of significant work by AV was a massive positive to me. The history after (engine swap / rebuild) put me off entirely though!

AV have been incredibly generous with their time to me as I’ve been looking and learning, including letting me poke around their workshop for an afternoon last summer. Hugely grateful to them.

The whole story makes no sense to me, if you loved the engine in the Modena enough and can live with big bills, why not do the same work to the spider rather than devaluing both with an engine swap. My experience to date has been that if something smells odd, you should move on. That includes being told by a car dealer who is at the centre of a debate on pistonheads about a ropey Ferrari FF, that I’d misunderstood when his sales agent told me I couldn’t get the car inspected. I hadn’t misunderstood, one of them wasn’t telling the truth and I walked away. Ferrari buying seems rife with peril!!

it is because the potential upside for the dealer is huge especially when a clueless buyer just buys a car to drive to car shows or polish in the garage.

in that situation the unscrupulous dealer gets away with it scott free.

 

[sssdu01]

You will then find the true market value

You will find out what dealers are asking, but unlike e bay, you dont know how much money is changing hands. Ferraris are notorious for dealers taking a punt and asking silly money on the back of the sales price of a low mileage unobtanium spec garage queen. The only way to establish market price for anything is to sell one of your own :laugh:

 

[cgt]

You will find out what dealers are asking, but unlike e bay, you dont know how much money is changing hands. Ferraris are notorious for dealers taking a punt and asking silly money on the back of the sales price of a low mileage unobtanium spec garage queen. The only way to establish market price for anything is to sell one of your own [emoji23]

When I sold my RHD 458 dealer bids were all under £115k. I sold for £130k privately.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

 

[MalcH]

Trouble with the last line is that what gives people distorted views of the market - £100k 458

History?
Low Spec?
Similar stories?
LHD?
Suspect mileage?

In order to understand the true market for any Ferrari - remove the special editions, they are a different market - Now look at all the cars of a particular tipo - take out the top 10% and bottom 10% pricewise out of the equation.

If you are not considering LHD take them out and then normalise the circa 80% left around a spec and mileage scale.

You will then find the true market value

Agreed, that would not be a 458 I'd bother with. There's no such think as a cheap lunch or indeed cheap Ferrari. I also think it was on eBay. I am not saying not to trust it but it is not where I would sell a Ferrari and its obvious I'm crap at that as it is.

Regarding the TDF 360, if the price is right then why not. £90k is nothing like right IMHO.

 

[Nosevi]

Regarding the TDF 360, if the price is right then why not. £90k is nothing like right IMHO.

I think with a car like that the real question is what is 'right' though, Malc? For a car that's had an engine swap that at least appears to have been done to put its engine into another car rather than because its engine actually had a problem, and for a car where you're quite clearly not being given the full story (the OP said there's more in the car's past that isn't on this thread and he wasn't made aware of) what would be the right price? For me it'd have to be silly low............ in fact even then I don't think I would buy a car in those circumstances - I hate being lied to and that alone would be enough for me to simply walk away no matter what they asked for it.

Btw I'm not saying the sales guy is necessarily lying, but if he's not the owner is. Either way I'd personally walk away.

 

[A348W]

Regarding the TDF 360, if the price is right then why not. £90k is nothing like right IMHO.

I see the car is no longer advertised. :hmmm:

If that car had a together history I'd see that advertised at £70k ish. I'm not saying its worth that but seems what other Modena's are in and around, noting they all seem to be priced on the optimism of spring in the usual way! Its certainly not more than most 430s and v close to some manual 430s!

But with the story here I'd guess thats a £45k car maybe; if you could find a buyer!! Shame as its a very good looking car.

 

[irarref]

So what is the full story on the car?

Someone can pm me if they don't want to say in public but I am very curious.

 

[stuarts]

I'm happy to pm anyone with the further info that came to light, and yes, from now on, I'm only going through a few known/trusted specialist dealers to cut out the dodgy cars!