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599GTB - Modificato Project

M

Modificato

New member
Well a very interesting start to my
599 ownership. I collected the car after it had been serviced at 17,100 miles. The drive home was a fairly long one so I was looking forward to bonding with the car. I set off with half a tank of fuel and shortly after filling it I got my first error message.
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This came on and went off periodically so some hasty iPad research pointed towards a fuel cap that had not been tightened enough and I re-fitted it but the error message kept on popping up and then seemingly clearing itself.
The first car park manoeuvre revealed that a parking sensor issue that I raised prior to purchase had not been successfully fixed. Could this be impacting other systems?
Later in slow traffic I got the following message.
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Then this
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Followed by
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And finally
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Thankfully the supplying dealer is okay with me taking the car to my local franchise to get it on an SD3 so we can find out what all the issues are.
Of course if anyone has had any of the same issues your experiences will be greatly appreciated.
 
As you say, an "interesting" start to your ownership! You appear commendably calm and we look forward to hearing of the resolution of these problems. From all you posts you are well armed to handle this.
 
Those systems are all linked by CAN and I think one module failiure autoamtically shuts down at least some features of the other (E-Diff and ABS/EDC for sure).
 
I have prior experiences of V12's so went into it with my eyes open. These are by comparison to V8's very low volume cars and they are very expensive to run. The jury is out until I get it on an SD3 (April 6th) but prior experience has shown me that deferred part replacement and insufficient resolution of issues seems to be the norm even with approved cars. As you say many systems are linked and there is a permanent memory store of errors even when 'cleared' so that will no doubt reveal the story of the problems. I suspect some sensor issues as well as the parking sensor system too. Interestingly the official oil re-filling procedure from Ferrari themselves has just been revealed to be incorrect and leading to MAF issues some 10years after launch!
Good job I like problem solving...
 
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There was something on Fchat about a low charged and/or dodgy battery on a Cali causing something similar due to voltage spikes messing with the sensors. Can't remember the exact circumstances but it caused random warnings to ping up. Could be worth checking?
 
Nosevi said:
There was something on Fchat about a low charged and/or dodgy battery on a Cali causing something similar due to voltage spikes messing with the sensors. Can't remember the exact circumstances but it caused random warnings to ping up. Could be worth checking?
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Pretty sure the mannetino error is due to the parking sensor. US sites have it as a cause of this exact error. On inspection the inner piece of one front parking sensor is pushed back into its housing - perhaps by a stone strike. They seemingly tried to fix it at the service but it hasn't worked.

From the research I have done the engine control system error is likely down to over-filling with oil which causes contamination to the MAF sensor.
 
Modificato said:
Pretty sure the mannetino error is due to the parking sensor. US sites have it as a cause of this exact error. On inspection the inner piece of one front parking sensor is pushed back into its housing - perhaps by a stone strike. They seemingly tried to fix it at the service but it hasn't worked.

From the research I have done the engine control system error is likely down to over-filling with oil which causes contamination to the MAF sensor.
Click to expand...

MAF wise is that sorted with a quick blast of MAF cleaner or is it more serious? Checked the resistance of mine a while back and they were slightly off but cleaning them with MAF cleaner seemed to get it close then it was just a case of twisting a screw to fine tune it. Wasn't oil contamination mind you, just 'dirt'.
 
Modificato said:
Interestingly the official oil re-filling procedure from Ferrari themselves has just been revealed to be incorrect and leading to MAF issues some 10years after launch!
Click to expand...

I think Mark Collins did a thread about this a while back which may have additional detail
 
I actually paid a deposit on a 599 a couple of years ago but decided to back out at the 11th hour when I found out how many electrical gremlins that particular car (low miles, full main dealer history) had suffered from in the preceding year after talking with the servicing dealer.

It is an epic car to drive but that particular model seems to suffer more than others from electrical niggles. The car I nearly bought was a 2006, apparently 2008 and later ones are much better in this respect. I think Chris Harris had similar issues with repeated warning lights when he ran one for awhile.
 
Yeah they need to be driven.
Mine is a 2008 car that has done an average on 2k miles for every year of its life.
That's just asking for trouble IMHO and why I intend to drive it lots. With each of my prior V12's after some fettling and sundry sensor changes they ran with stone axe reliability but each had had servicing and repairs done on the cheap and / or deferred by former owners. US forums are full of 'get an OBDB reader' and clear the fault ' wisdom that is only going to bite in the long term. If there is a fault, there is a fault somewhere - just being a Ferrari it may take a while to find and fix.
 
If the oil's been overfilled the breather pumps oil into the intake and damages the MAF, in extreme circumstances the oil drains into the air filter housing and then run down the rear of the front wing, coming out the side air vent and bottom of the wing liner. Ferrari issued amended oil filling procedures in around 2009 IIRC.

btw be aware the intakes are reversed i.e. offside intake/ MAF feeds the nearside bank and vice versa


Many of the electrical gremlins seem to be spurious errors that don't leave a trace in the error logs, low or bad battery is a prime candidate
 
I suffered intermittent ABS, Suspension, CST and manetino errors for a year until the problem was traced to a faulty £14 brake pedal switch. Common fault on the F430 and other models built around that time apparently.
 
slapshot said:
I suffered intermittent ABS, Suspension, CST and manetino errors for a year until the problem was traced to a faulty £14 brake pedal switch. Common fault on the F430 and other models built around that time apparently.
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Thanks that is exactly the kind of knowledge that helps massively because I can just change something like that for an improved one. Today shutting he door caused the tweeter housing to fall off.
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As you can see the 'design' work for the trim is horrible. What would in a volume producer be two or three parts is in the Ferrari loads of parts. Inspection of the passenger side shows that both have been fitted incorrectly at the factory. It is quite a fiddly process and although workers on the V12 line are never rushed for time feeding the edge into the rubber seal seems to have been optional for whomever fitted mine. The root cause is the tweeter wires which are fiddly to route properly so i have fixed that.

Anyway all fundamental improvement so no worries.
 
Modificato said:
Thanks that is exactly the kind of knowledge that helps massively because I can just change something like that for an improved one. Today shutting he door caused the tweeter housing to fall off.
View attachment 145752
As you can see the 'design' work for the trim is horrible. What would in a volume producer be two or three parts is in the Ferrari loads of parts. Inspection of the passenger side shows that both have been fitted incorrectly at the factory. It is quite a fiddly process and although workers on the V12 line are never rushed for time feeding the edge into the rubber seal seems to have been optional for whomever fitted mine. The root cause is the tweeter wires which are fiddly to route properly so i have fixed that.

Anyway all fundamental improvement so no worries.
Click to expand...

Nosevi said:
Kind of doubt it's any different on the V8 line. :)
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Probably not the factory either, suspect the trims have been off for some other reason, my drivers one fell off too :)

the brake light switch is a common source of problems across many manufactures inc Landrover and VAG, on the Discovery 3 a failed or even poor quality brake light bulb will cause multiple errors
 
Nosevi said:
Kind of doubt it's any different on the V8 line. :)
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In production engineering circles it is generally accepted that volume drives quality.

With the Toyota-style Just-In-Time manufacturing that Ferrari use each worker has with each vehicle cycle a chance to suggest and introduce improvements.

On the V8 line which is delivering 5-10x the number cars of the V12 line there are simply more opportunities to identify improvements, also any investment required to make design or tooling Improvements can be amortised over a significantly higher number of cars.

I would therefore submit that the two platforms would 'naturally' have different quality levels.
 
Certainly when I was on the factory tour there were more people doing not very much on the V12 line.

On the V8 line the staff there seemed busier, there was less hanging about
 
In the business it's called the TAKT time, the tempo at which cars come of the line and hence the time each worker has to complete their cycle of work. In a Just-in-time system that would be the exact tempo of actual orders placed rather than some arbitrary 'forecast' or 'plan' that you see in old fashioned factories. At Ferrari (last time I looked) the V8 line runs to a TAKT expressed in hours while the V12 line is signifncantly slower paced. When there is nothing to do JIT line workers are expected to make and suggest improvements that's how the system runs with significantly lower cash tied up in inventory and higher quality than traditional mass production.

As a measure of relative sophistication my friends up at Nissan in Washington run a line with four different Models produced on the very same line in exact customer order sequence to a TAKT of 59 seconds - and at quality levels Ferrari can only dream of.
 
All understood. On the V12 line they have more time to get it just right. That'll explain why the car fell apart when you simply closed the door then :grin:

I'm teasing you :)

I am slightly surprised there are quite so many 'teething problems' though if I'm honest.
 
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