Golf improvement thread

[JoyZipper]

It's been a while since I've updated this so thought I might as well do that quickly. Golf wise I've been driven off the course by the weather but as I have the sim with launch monitor and my coach is tweaking my swing (again) that doesn't really matter that much, I'm still getting plenty of practice in.

Off the course but working towards my goals several things have happened in the last few weeks.

Firstly the company that markets my launch monitor sent a photog round to take some shots for a short article they're doing about me and how I'm using their kit to progress and sent me some shots so may as well share:

View attachment 139698

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Fortunately it went straight down the middle

View attachment 139701

Secondly I've been approached by a 'stats guy'. He wants to follow my progress and chart it all in terms of statistics in order to show where I can improve and where I need to focus my efforts. I've been in touch with a European Tour player who came to golf late and he advised me to do this to some extent. As the guy that got in touch has a background in statistical analysis and is willing to do the book work for me for free it seems like I might as well take him up on it.

Thirdly I've made a couple of deals. I knew why I bought my kit - for very geeky reasons that I won't go in to it's far better for game improvement than the likes of Trackman or Flightscope (I tested doppler radars for the military so understood what limitations the systems have). The penny has finally droppped in the rest of the golfing world so everyone is switching to my kit - The likes of Butch Harmon won't let his players use anything else, Rory, Ian Poulter, Ricky Fowler, Phil Mickelson..... and about 100 other PGA Tour players have just gone out and bought the exact same kit as I have. And they have bought it - the company who make it have refused to give a single unit away.

Anyway, I've made a deal with a very good local pro to use my kit and swing studio to coach his top players in return for free short game coaching (I'm sticking with my current coach for long game as it's his forte) and unlimited free range balls at his club. I've made another deal with a local tour pro that she can train on the kit basically in exchange for training together on it, practicing short game and shooting practice rounds together (we're both members of the same club). My thought is if you want to play at a high level you need to know what that's like and have someone to drag you up to it. Her boyfriend is also a tour pro and is round next monday for a session in the swing studio on the launch monitor, she's said he'd be more than happy to join us for the odd practice round. Again, be interesting to see close up how a male tour pro strikes the ball.

To be honest things are sort of falling into place. I've got the coaches I feel I need, sorted out the facilities, got 'training partners' that are going to push me, even got an analysis guy to target my practice. Days are getting longer (ie more golf and more phys), I'm getting (a bit) thinner and the ball is going straighter and further. Looking forward to the spring where I'll be representing my club in our A squad against other Lincolnshire clubs in Matchplay competitions - that'll be the real test to see how things are going

I have said it before Pete, but I can only commend you on what you're doing here. All the best with it.

I am just a bit jealous !

 

[Nosevi]

I have said it before Pete, but I can only commend you on what you're doing here. All the best with it.

I am just a bit jealous !

Thanks. Wonder if you would have been all that jealous at stupid o'clock yesterday morning while it was still dark when I was down some muddy briddle track in the sleet wondering what the **** I was doing there. Maybe you would, don't know Working on a bit of leg strength and stamina is the answer, but the location has more to do with focusing my determination a tad and I go out every morning.

I'm actually in touch with others who have either done or are trying to do something similar. One is a guy in the States running a blog called the Dan Plan, we chat by email from time to time but our approach is totally different. Where he's been in touch with academics who write on the subject of success generally and is very into the media side I don't put all that much stock in the 'theories of greatness' written by people who have never done any of this sort of thing and have gone to people who have actually done it themselves or are playing at the level I want to get to. Their perspective has been very different, much more about personal determination, hard graft, etc than theories and positivity.

Long way to go but we'll see how we do. Definitely be seeing you on the seniors' tour though - may just take me that long

 

[JoyZipper]

Thanks. Wonder if you would have been all that jealous at stupid o'clock yesterday morning while it was still dark when I was down some muddy briddle track in the sleet wondering what the **** I was doing there. Maybe you would, don't know Working on a bit of leg strength and stamina is the answer, but the location has more to do with focusing my determination a tad and I go out every morning.

I'm actually in touch with others who have either done or are trying to do something similar. One is a guy in the States running a blog called the Dan Plan, we chat by email from time to time but our approach is totally different. Where he's been in touch with academics who write on the subject of success generally and is very into the media side I don't put all that much stock in the 'theories of greatness' written by people who have never done any of this sort of thing and have gone to people who have actually done it themselves or are playing at the level I want to get to. Their perspective has been very different, much more about personal determination, hard graft, etc than theories and positivity.

Long way to go but we'll see how we do. Definitely be seeing you on the seniors' tour though - may just take me that long

I'm fast beginning to realise that the Seniors Tour is but a pipe dream - family and work life make golfing a rare pleasure these days.

Having said that, the European Tour Seniors Q school finished yesterday and the qualifying score was +5 for 72 holes. I mean +5, come on ! +1 or better gained a full card.

Talking about the hard graft, Ben Hogan summed it up perfectly - "If it is to be, it's up to me".

 

[Nosevi]

I'm fast beginning to realise that the Seniors Tour is but a pipe dream - family and work life make golfing a rare pleasure these days.

Having said that, the European Tour Seniors Q school finished yesterday and the qualifying score was +5 for 72 holes. I mean +5, come on ! +1 or better gained a full card.

Talking about the hard graft, Ben Hogan summed it up perfectly - "If it is to be, it's up to me".

Another good quote was from Gary Player. When someone commented that a shot he had just taken was "lucky" he said "Yep, it's funny - the harder I practice, the 'luckier' I get." Also think it sums things up nicely.

The Europro is a bit harder to get a decent exemption category on at the moment. First stage seems easy enough - 2 rounds and guys scoring +5 would have gone through last year. The final stage though is 3 rounds and if you're not under par you won't be playing very many tournaments, 5 under was requied last year for a 'full card'.

I think with both, particularly the Seniors, it depends what you can do when you get there. The Europro is all in the UK so playing isn't hugely expensive. The Seniors though would be a lot more expensive to play on. If you're only really at the level to scrape through, say 5 over is a reasonable result for you, you'll play some golf but effectively you'll be funding other guys' prize money - you're not going to win any at that level, and it'll cost a lot to do. People do do that though, they're independently wealthy and the sort of person who doesn't mind getting thrashed week in week out, they just enjoy the life. I'm neither

Wouldn't give up on a dream just yet though. Maybe in a year or two you'll have a bit more time to dedicate to seeing if you can do it.

 

[Nosevi]

Interesting day tomorrow, got 2 tour pros (one female, one male) popping over to use the swing studio and launch monitor with me. While I won't be able to share their launch stats and dispersion numbers etc it'll be good to see how I compare at this stage. Guessing (in fact hoping) it'll put my ball striking so far in perspective and give me something to shoot for, especially with the male tour pro. He played on the Alps Tour last year and did pretty well, earned enough money to keep his card which is always the first aim on the lower tours. Next year he's moving across to the Europro though which is at the same level but UK based and is at the level I'm realistically aiming for (at least to start with ).

Been practicing hard so I at least don't utterly embarass myself. Couple of sets from the last few days - been working on hitting draws and fades as required over the last month and it's going pretty well:





I had someone ask recently if I really do hit it quite that consistently now (doubter! ). This is the shot data from those two sets. All shots are numbered on the left - delete a shot and that number is missing:





I've worked really hard on my long game over the winter so will be good to see how it compares. Then there's just the small issue of getting the ball in the hole......

On that score my stats guy has sent me a spreadsheet which works out how far behind the PGA pros I am in terms of putting from each distance. Essentially you keep a track of every putt from every distance and it works out how many shots per round you are losing compared to the PGA Tour average, he then sends me graphs etc. Right now I'm losing about 1.75 shots per round due to not putting as well as them. TBH it's less that I thought it would be but I have been working on putting quite a bit.

 

[Nosevi]

Right, well I was right, that really was an interesting couple of days.

I went in the sim on the launch monitor with the tour pros (Jess and Brian) and it was interesting to see how I compared. Brian had just got back from Royal Lytham St Annes (ie where they sometimes hold The Open) where he had just shot 7 under par last weekend........ yep, 7 under par on a Championship course. Hitting balls with him on the launch monitor it was pretty easy to see how. Interestingly our drives are not that far apart (my longest was above his) but he struck his irons so purely it was untrue. I'm not bad for an amateur but this lad is generally about a club longer than most pros. Most guys overestimate their yardages on the course, they think they strike an 8 iron 145 yards carry when in reality they average about 140 or even a tad less. This lad was hitting his 9 iron 161 yards carry on average! 8 iron was more like 175 yards carry. Would love to post his swing as we video'd it a few times on analysis software but won't as I don't have his permission but it was utterly effortless. While I may be able to hit it as pure as an 'average' pro one day, this sort of performance and distance is likely to be forever out of my league. There again, it's out of most pro's league so I can live with that.

Today Jess had something else on so Brian and I went for some short game practice - more his forte he said, which had me worried baring in mind my plan. He asked what I wanted to do and I said basically challenges or competitions - he call a shot or position around the green and we both try to get up and down from it. If I win I call the next challenge, draw or he wins and he keeps 'control' and calls the next challenge. The proviso was if I was struggling with a certain shot we stop and he gives me some instruction.

It was great fun and really useful to see how good this guy was. I did win a few though and towards the end was winning a few more than at the beginning. He commented that my short game was far better than I had said it was. It gave me an insight into how a guy like that plays but also into his mindset. When I won one and said the next 'challenge' was the closest "lag putt" from maybe 60 feet he instantly said "There's no such thing a as a lag putt - you're trying to hole it not lag it close to the hole." That kind of attitude rubbed off and when he chipped in shortly afterwards my attitude was I was going to follow him in to tie the hole, in fact in a way I expected to. I left it bang on line and an inch short, literally hanging on the edge of the hole. Rather than pleased it was a good chip I was gutted I hadn't had the confidence to bang it in.

The challenges got harder and harder, I chose some of the hardest - flop shot over a bunker to a tight pin sort of things, I wasn't going to learn anything doing easy chip and runs which we drew each time. The last challenge was a shot he set up - 3 shots of about a 25 yard pitch that had to hit the green....... but stop short of a flag 3 or so yards on, closest to the pin but short of it wins. We both 'scored' with 2 out of 3 (ie hit the green and stopped short of the pin) and we both drew ie our closest was bang on the same distance from the flag (about 2 feet). At that point I called it quits ....... and it was time for the school run anyway.

I learned more about the short game and the sort of mind set to have in that 2 hours than I have in the past year. And mind set is massively important around the green - as I got more confident the shots got better, it really is that simple.

The two of them are out of the country somewhere hot and sunny for some golf training for a few weeks but we've said we'll get together when they get back. Guess I'd better get practicing.......

 

[markst]

started lessons with my new coach a few weeks ago , after my last coach moved away :cry3::cry3:

lets me see.......that's a new takeaway, new release and set up........clearly more practice required

 

[Nosevi]

started lessons with my new coach a few weeks ago , after my last coach moved away :cry3::cry3:

lets me see.......that's a new takeaway, new release and set up........clearly more practice required

How's it going generally, mate? Scores coming down slowly, pretty static or tough to tell at this time of the year?

 

[markst]

How's it going generally, mate? Scores coming down slowly, pretty static or tough to tell at this time of the year?

i'm still teaching !!!!!......so no practice at all.....

however, played 9 holes last week and I thought I was crap, but scored a quick 23 points, so something is working,......lol

 

[Nosevi]

i'm still teaching !!!!!......so no practice at all.....

however, played 9 holes last week and I thought I was crap, but scored a quick 23 points, so something is working,......lol

Must be

Played today, 5 degrees C when I went out, sleet as I came back in and 40-45 mph winds. Oddly the course was pretty deserted. The 450 yard par 4 straight into the wind was a hoot (driver, 5 wood, 9 iron just to get to the green!) and taking 5 and 4 irons into short par 3s keeps life interesting. I'm actually rubbish in the wind as I hit the ball pretty high so it was good practice. Didn't score great but considering the conditions shooting 7 over wasn't an utter disaster either and a lost ball that accelerated sideways on the wind at a vast rate of knots was 2 of those.

Got my first match for my club's 1st team in a little under 2 weeks - pairs matchplay (4 ball) and there are 6 teams of 2. Be interesting to see how the game bears up with a bit of added pressure not wanting to let team mates down.

 

[markst]

as pete's decided to cut back on his golf post I think I had better start ........:grin:

so there I was on the 1st tee of my new club, the pro peeking his head round to see what happened as I pulled my 3 Hy out to pay up for the ditch..........yup down the middle and 10 yrds short of ditch ! .......

sadly my son , who would normally carry the ditch topped it and was in the heather 20 yrds in front

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Nosevi]

as pete's decided to cut back on his golf post I think I had better start ........:grin:

so there I was on the 1st tee of my new club, the pro peeking his head round to see what happened as I pulled my 3 Hy out to pay up for the ditch..........yup down the middle and 10 yrds short of ditch ! .......

sadly my son , who would normally carry the ditch topped it and was in the heather 20 yrds in front

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

'Luckily' for you, I said in the event of being elected I'd consider it

Anyway, sounds like you got off to a good start, hope you kept it going?

It's been a while since I posted anything to do with my swing, I took this video not so long ago so may as well post it up. I took it after having a 'video conference' with a guy in the States called Randall who looks after statistical analysis for me. He's a seriously clever bloke, was a Nuclear Engineer in the US military before turning his considerable talents to computer science and programming. He's a keen golfer, got interested in what I'm doing and how I'm going about it, and so is helping me out for free.

Essentially I send him everything from loads of ball flight data taken from the launch monitor (spin rates, trajectories, carry yardages, dispersion etc) to putting stats, he also has sight of the GPS tracking system I use to track my on course performance as well as all my score cards and data taken from practicing. He shows where different aspects of my game are improving and where I'll pick up the most shots on the course by focusing my training in one or other area. He's in the process of finishing off a spreadsheet that will show and then track how every aspect of my game compares with the average performance of every handicap level from well below my current performance up to tour pro. It's a seriously 'busy' spreadsheet but with graphs and diagrams it'll show exactly where I stand in every aspect of the game and where I should focus my efforts for maximum benefit.

Anyway, I'd just come off the call and been talking about drills and exercises I do in the simulator to improve the skills I need on the course. For reference I'm hitting my 5 wood which I hit between 230 and 240 yards. The sim is great for this sort of thing and really helps you to get control of the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0iydGIoK0U&autoplay=0

Just in case it's tough to see the ball flight on the vid (should have shot it in HD really) these are them:

1st was a Fade



Then a draw:



Then back to a fade:



Then finally a slightly harder draw, would have ended up about 5 or so yards left of target once it had rolled out to be honest but it gives an idea of the drill.



Anyway, that's the sort of thing I get up to on the sim.

 

[markst]

I pared the 1st then the wheels fell off.....lol....but was feeling very ****ty

 

[Nosevi]

I pared the 1st then the wheels fell off.....lol....but was feeling very ****ty

Oh well, at least it was a strong start

 

[markst]

popped out for a quick 9 holes.........all 5s, .......def lack of practice is costing me dear !

 

[JoyZipper]

The fade/draw exercise is interesting Pete in that you're setting up square to the target line and changing your swing plane.

The way that I was always taught was (for a fade) set up with your feet/body slightly open and the clubface square to the target line (therefore also open to my body) which in theory should promote an out to in swing.

Vice versa for a draw.

Is this the modern way of thinking ? Set up square and route the downswing accordingly ?

 

[Nosevi]

popped out for a quick 9 holes.........all 5s, .......def lack of practice is costing me dear !

Was practically playing with you

After some short game practice also popped out for 9 holes (bored of putting in 4 or 5 degrees C). Only really hit one poor shot but it cost me - after a good drive to the middle of the fairway, straight into the wind,leaving just a wedge into the green I manged to thin it straight through the green under some trees. Other than that it was all pars - 6 regulation, one up and down from a chip, one up and down from a bunker. Shaved the hole a few times but absolutely nothing dropped so couldn't get those shots back. Other than that annoying thinned shot both long and short game were pretty much coming together though.

 

[Nosevi]

The fade/draw exercise is interesting Pete in that you're setting up square to the target line and changing your swing plane.

The way that I was always taught was (for a fade) set up with your feet/body slightly open and the clubface square to the target line (therefore also open to my body) which in theory should promote an out to in swing.

Vice versa for a draw.

Is this the modern way of thinking ? Set up square and route the downswing accordingly ?

Got to pick the kids up so will answer properly in a bit

 

[Nosevi]

The fade/draw exercise is interesting Pete in that you're setting up square to the target line and changing your swing plane.

The way that I was always taught was (for a fade) set up with your feet/body slightly open and the clubface square to the target line (therefore also open to my body) which in theory should promote an out to in swing.

Vice versa for a draw.

Is this the modern way of thinking ? Set up square and route the downswing accordingly ?

Right have picked up kids so will try to answer. Firstly for me there is a fraction of a change in the set up but it is very minor - if you watch again for a fade I set up square and stay square throughout the practice swing and the shot, but for the draw I'm pretty square but just before my practice swing I drop my right foot back a fraction. It's pretty subconcious but when I think of coming from the ball from the inside I do it to give me the room to swing along the path I want. When I set up after the practice swing I'm a fraction closed.

Regarding the old way of thinking of it, it used to be believed that the ball set off along the line you swing the club and spins back to where you point the club face, in fact a fair few teaching pros still believe this! Unfortunately it's utterly untrue. The ball actually sets off almost perpendicular to the club face (offset a tiny amount by the swing path but it's not by a lot) and spins away from the difference between the club face and swing path. What this means is that if anyone actually achieved what was being taught - ie for a draw to impact the ball with the face pointing at the target but swinging along their toe line which is pointing right of the target, the result would in fact be a ball that set off at the flag but then hooks left of it........ and this would happen every time.

In fact, and you're going to have to trust me on this one, for a right hander, for a draw that draws onto the target the club face is pointing right of the target at impact and for a fade it's pointing left of the target. I promice you that is true. It has to be because a draw that ends up on target starts right of target so that is where the club face is pointing.

With all of that said, why do I do it by 'feel' rather than set up? The simple answer is I spend hours practicing and to me by feel gets by far the best results. When people do it by set up they are, in essence trying to feel like they are swinging the club the same but by setting up differently they get a different result. When I hit a fade it feels utterly different to hitting a draw, the two don't feel remotely the same. They used to feel similar but the more I practice the more different they feel. You can see the ball flights on the images - to me the fades feel like a huge slice and the draws feel like an exagerated hook. What this means is that I never stand on the tee and accidentally fade it when I want to draw it, they just feel so utterly different that I don't think I could. It'd be like trying to slice it miles right and somehow hitting a hook - it's just not possible.

None of that is to say that the old way of set up different, swing the same won't work but I tend to move the ball around a lot and for me the only way to do that is by feel. One of the best feel players out there right now is Bubba Watson. If you watch these 2 vids back to back a few times, one of him hitting a draw, the other a fade, you can see how different his swing is - it's not even similar. Yes he's changing his setup but he's massively changing how he swings the club as well - one looks like a snap hook the other a huge slice. This is how it feels to me - just depends if you play by feel or by the numbers

Draw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8yOpoqTapY&autoplay=0

Fade:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGYfe0r1xLY&autoplay=0

 

[markst]

well I walked off today as my feet hurt so much..........nothing to do with crap golf mind.

but popped down the range and everything was working fine pretty quickly .......